2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Western/Miami don't "bring anything to the table" either. Hell there's barely even a table.

True, but that would require the rest of the NCHC to swallow their pride and admit a mistake...don't see that happening because there isn't a financial gain to doing it...

 

[davyd83]

True, but that would require the rest of the NCHC to swallow their pride and admit a mistake...don't see that happening because there isn't a financial gain to doing it...

The biggest impediment for the NCHC is replacing two Division I schools with D2 teams. One of the prime reasons North Dakota, Denver & Miami got in cahoots was to avoid the situation where D2 schools could dictate league policy., which would have been the case had they not blown up the old WCHA.

 

[jdmaxim23]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

The biggest impediment for the NCHC is replacing two Division I schools with D2 teams. One of the prime reasons North Dakota, Denver & Miami got in cahoots was to avoid the situation where D2 schools could dictate league policy., which would have been the case had they not blown up the old WCHA.

I've heard that logic and reason alot, and I always laugh at it because what Division do they think SCSU, UMD and UNO are in? Hell, BSU and MSU-M play UMD and SCSU in every sport. Not to Mention that CC is a D3 school. So I get it that they want an equal balance of D1 and D2 schools, but I firmly believe that BSU and MSU-M will bring more to the table in local rivalry and home games (where their fans actually travel compared to WMU and Miami) as well as the conference tournament where you have alot of alumni from these schools in the twin cities. Its also an easy travel weekend for the fans to drive to the tournament. just my opinion.

 

[davyd83]

I've heard that logic and reason alot, and I always laugh at it because what Division do they think SCSU, UMD and UNO are in? Hell, BSU and MSU-M play UMD and SCSU in every sport. Not to Mention that CC is a D3 school. So I get it that they want an equal balance of D1 and D2 schools, but I firmly believe that BSU and MSU-M will bring more to the table in local rivalry and home games (where their fans actually travel compared to WMU and Miami) as well as the conference tournament where you have alot of alumni from these schools in the twin cities. Its also an easy travel weekend for the fans to drive to the tournament. just my opinion.

UNO is Division I. 5 of the 8 NCHC teams are D-1, two are D2 and CC is D3. With 5 of the 8 schools being D-1, they dictate league policy. Swap a pair of D1 school for two D2s, and the voting balance in the league meetings shifts to the smaller schools.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I've heard that logic and reason alot, and I always laugh at it because what Division do they think SCSU, UMD and UNO are in? Hell, BSU and MSU-M play UMD and SCSU in every sport. Not to Mention that CC is a D3 school. So I get it that they want an equal balance of D1 and D2 schools, but I firmly believe that BSU and MSU-M will bring more to the table in local rivalry and home games (where their fans actually travel compared to WMU and Miami) as well as the conference tournament where you have alot of alumni from these schools in the twin cities. Its also an easy travel weekend for the fans to drive to the tournament. just my opinion.

I think you're completely right and it was more about Gwozdecky/Blasi relationship and the perception that WMU and Miami were upgrades in prestige from MTU, UAA, MSUM, BSU. To be fair, in 2013, that probably was true.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

UNO is Division I. 5 of the 8 NCHC teams are D-1, two are D2 and CC is D3. With 5 of the 8 schools being D-1, they dictate league policy. Swap a pair of D1 school for two D2s, and the voting balance in the league meetings shifts to the smaller schools.

But you assume that D1 means something in hockey that it doesn't. Do you really think UMD or SCSU is voting like a D2 school in the frame of NCHC business? I would think that those 2 are likely to be more interested in whatever UND/DU are than Miami and WMU.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Players would miss 7 consecutive days of class on the 12 day/11 night journey.

This assumes that players are going to class when they are on their own campus... that's a big assumption.
Ryan J

<img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/70/9c/f5/709cf5b00ed77241d71d3dec748e8f4b.jpg">

 

[davyd83]

But you assume that D1 means something in hockey that it doesn't. Do you really think UMD or SCSU is voting like a D2 school in the frame of NCHC business? I would think that those 2 are likely to be more interested in whatever UND/DU are than Miami and WMU.

I don't assume anything. I base my opinion on conversations I've had with coaches, administrators and league officials over the past 5 years.

 

[jdmaxim23]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I don't assume anything. I base my opinion on conversations I've had with coaches, administrators and league officials over the past 5 years.

You are correct.. I forget that UNO is a D1 school. So instead of 4 to 4, it is at 5 to 3 balance. I truely understand the thought process behind it, but I would like to think that true financial merit would win out of perceived prestige of certain members. Everything goes in cycles so the prestige of certain schools will ebb and flow over time. However, the local fan base travelling to support the core of these schools, when all are within hours of each other would grow over time and re-estabilish a little bit of what has been missing the last few years.

Bottom line comes back to the fact it just makes too much sense though

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I don't assume anything. I base my opinion on conversations I've had with coaches, administrators and league officials over the past 5 years.

Alright, I'll stop talking, you know everything...its not about egos its just about the perceived difference between D1 and D2 schools yet they chose to include non-D1 schools...and chose not to include BGSU. It's all about the status, which most of those schools in question didn't even have what 8 years ago? I guess DU was farther back than I thought...but still

 

[davyd83]

Alright, I'll stop talking, you know everything...its not about egos its just about the perceived difference between D1 and D2 schools yet they chose to include non-D1 schools...and chose not to include BGSU. It's all about the status, which most of those schools in question didn't even have what 8 years ago? I guess DU was farther back than I thought...but still

CC and UMD were the only two lower Division schools initially included. CC came as a partner with Denver. UMD had a national championship and a shiny new arena and thus, the revenue stream to hang with those "like minded" schools. St Cloud wasn't invited to join until Notre Dame turned the NCHC down. As for Bowling Green, they had just come out of nearly having their program eliminated for financial reasons.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

CC and UMD were the only two lower Division schools initially included. CC came as a partner with Denver. UMD had a national championship and a shiny new arena and thus, the revenue stream to hang with those "like minded" schools. St Cloud wasn't invited to join until Notre Dame turned the NCHC down. As for Bowling Green, they had just come out of nearly having their program eliminated for financial reasons.

We all know why, but you keep acting like the D1 status is pivotal, maybe it was for Western being chosen over others but to act like swapping Miami and WMU for BSU and MSUM would somehow create a voting issue is absurd. UND, DU, UMD, SCSU, UNO should be a strong voting block majority without even including D3 CC and the new swapped schools. That's the point I'm trying to make that makes a ton more sense their your D1>D2 crap.

You can act like its all about NCAA membership status but if that were true, CC has no business being included. Its all about who these teams had relationships with. UND/DU started this thing and they wanted UMD's NC, UND's friend in UNO; DU's friends CC and Miami. Miami wanted WMU. The leadership realized at some point that their tournament (and a lot of their recruiting) would be in Minneapolis/St. Paul and they thought it would be a good idea to have SCSU. It has very little to do with D1 status directly, despite what you claim.

 

[UpNorthHockey]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I bet NCHC would now be happy to trade WMU and Miami for Kato and Bemidji, but at the time the NCHC was formed, they were still unsure of the landscape and which factors would be important. An NCHC with all the leftover MN teams would now be great for ticket sales and Kato and Bemidji could certainly hold their own against UMD and SCSU. That said, WMU and Miami would never agree to leave the NCHC, even if they became perennial cellar dwellers. I don't think any teams will be leaving the NCHC. I do think the NCHC could cherry pick a team or two from the WCHA if they wanted to expand. They'd either pick off Kato and Bemidji or they'd try to get BGSU if they had a new program they also wanted to add or in the unlikely event that Notre Dame came back. Key understanding is that NCHC doesn't want any of the UP schools or FSU because of their small, rural markets, difficult travel and spotty performance.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I bet NCHC would now be happy to trade WMU and Miami for Kato and Bemidji, but at the time the NCHC was formed, they were still unsure of the landscape and which factors would be important. An NCHC with all the leftover MN teams would now be great for ticket sales and Kato and Bemidji could certainly hold their own against UMD and SCSU. That said, WMU and Miami would never agree to leave the NCHC, even if they became perennial cellar dwellers. I don't think any teams will be leaving the NCHC. I do think the NCHC could cherry pick a team or two from the WCHA if they wanted to expand. They'd either pick off Kato and Bemidji or they'd try to get BGSU if they had a new program they also wanted to add or in the unlikely event that Notre Dame came back. Key understanding is that NCHC doesn't want any of the UP schools or FSU because of their small, rural markets, difficult travel and spotty performance.

Probably true.
I really like having Mankato and Bemidji in our league and I hope they stay.. I know it's tough travel. Let's Find a way for Duluth to play more games vs the UP schools. I also think the league tournament wasn't a bath like it was the last time. ( crosses fingers says two hail mary's) Which should help.

 

[aparch]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

*sees the Notre Dame to B1G Mistake thread...*

*waits for Hockey East, ECAC, and AHA to explode*

<img src=http://www.nmubaseball.net/uscho/popcorn.gif>

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

*sees the Notre Dame to B1G Mistake thread...*

*waits for Hockey East, ECAC, and AHA to explode*

<img src=http://www.nmubaseball.net/uscho/popcorn.gif>

It's funny to me that the HE guys assume, maybe rightly, but maybe not, that those schools mentioned would be just so happy to leave their present deal and go to them. Well maybe, but a lot of them have said over and over, "we like our league".

 

[tape]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Jeff Jackson repeatedly said that Notre Dame liked being in Hockey East even when we all knew otherwise. Coaches/ADs have to say that they love being a member of their conference until such time as they're not in the conference anymore.

anyway, there's no way that all three Eastern conferences "explode". hockey east will pick up one team, and if it's an ECAC team then an AHA team will move to the ECAC, and that's it. This won't be a 5 years ago situation.

 

[davyd83]

It's funny to me that the HE guys assume, maybe rightly, but maybe not, that those schools mentioned would be just so happy to leave their present deal and go to them. Well maybe, but a lot of them have said over and over, "we like our league".

Kinda like St Cloud did.

 

[ThePowerConference]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Exchanging Mankato and Bemidji for Western Michigan and Miami makes a ton of sense geographically but you aren't going to get that accomplished because WMU and Miami probably don't want to leave a "better" conference for a "worse" one right now. What it would do is make the NCHC look more like the old WCHA and make the new WCHA look more like the old CCHA though, so it aint such a bad idea.

 

[Huskiefan906]

Exchanging Mankato and Bemidji for Western Michigan and Miami makes a ton of sense geographically but you aren't going to get that accomplished because WMU and Miami probably don't want to leave a "better" conference for a "worse" one right now. What it would do is make the NCHC look more like the old WCHA and make the new WCHA look more like the old CCHA though, so it aint such a bad idea.

NFW do we want Western or Miami. We need to keep Mankato and the Beavers.