2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

[Kepler]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

I quoted the NCAA handbook and you quoted CHN and I'm flat out wrong?

In all honesty, I would trust CHN over the NC$$ handbook. For one thing, the NC$$ is obscurantist either by design or because of the general incompetence they show in all their activites. For another, CHN has staff that have been meticulously picking this system apart for the last 15 years.

The laws are:

1. Hosts must be seeded in their regional.
2. No first round intra-conference matchups.
3. 1 seeds are placed in order by proximity.

After that there are a bunch of non-deterministic rules, the most important of which is they try really, really, really hard not to swap bands.

The only way for the three laws above to be self-contradictory is if a host is the 4 at the site a 1 would fall under by law 3. IINM that has never happened so we have no historical guidance (my intuition is they would just swap the 4 down to a 3; others think they would never violate banding), but the Q scenario doesn't fall under this possible exception anyway, so U is safe as long as they have a 1 locked up, which if people below are correct they do.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Up to #2 for the first time in school history.

Congratulations!

A rising tide lifts all boats and I am always rooting for any ECAC member to do well.

Which is not to say I don't hope we beat you 23-0 Friday.

Trivia about this year's ECAC F4: it is the first time in 8 years that every member has been in the ECAC F4 at least once in the prior two seasons. (The field has not been an exact match in any season since 1971).

 

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Up to #2 for the first time in school history.

Another high water mark. Having been involved as a fan for several decades, I will NEVER fail to appreciate or take for granted the success of this team and program, and the heights it has reached, come what may. Simply amazing with more to come.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Way to go Dutchmen !!!!!!

USCHO.com/NCAA poll
Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll
1 Minnesota (36) 25- 5-6 986 1
2 Union (14) 26- 6-4 945 3
3 Boston College 26- 7-4 899 2
4 Ferris State 27- 9-3 826 6
5 Quinnipiac 24- 8-6 774 6
6 Wisconsin 22-10-2 750 5
7 Massachusetts-Lowell 23-10-4 676 8
8 St. Cloud State 21-10-5 624 4
9 Providence 21- 9-6 611 9
10 Notre Dame 23-13-2 606 11
11 North Dakota 22-12-3 498 10
12 Michigan 18-12-4 419 13
13 Cornell 17- 9-5 408 12
14 Colgate 19-12-5 338 17
15 Minnesota State 24-13-1 320 18
16 Vermont 20-14-3 247 15
17 Northeastern 19-14-4 177 14
18 New Hampshire 21-17-1 141 NR
19 Western Michigan 19-14-5 109 NR
20 Yale 17-11-5 93 16
Others receiving votes: Denver 19, Mercyhurst 13, Maine 5, Minnesota-Duluth 5, Ohio State 5, Clarkson 2, Miami 2, Bowling Green 1.

 

[Lodge17]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Up to #2 for the first time in school history.

Yes!!! I had a felling last night that we would move ahead of BC after they lost 2 games at home. You never know though with all the big program bias that the voters have. It's about time we squeezed into #2.

Great day for Union Hockey. Big smiles!!!

 

[johnk]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

In all honesty, I would trust CHN over the NC$$ handbook. For one thing, the NC$$ is obscurantist either by design or because of the general incompetence they show in all their activites. For another, CHN has staff that have been meticulously picking this system apart for the last 15 years.

The laws are:

1. Hosts must be seeded in their regional.
2. No first round intra-conference matchups.
3. 1 seeds are placed in order by proximity.

After that there are a bunch of non-deterministic rules, the most important of which is they try really, really, really hard not to swap bands.

The only way for the three laws above to be self-contradictory is if a host is the 4 at the site a 1 would fall under by law 3. IINM that has never happened so we have no historical guidance (my intuition is they would just swap the 4 down to a 3; others think they would never violate banding), but the Q scenario doesn't fall under this possible exception anyway, so U is safe as long as they have a 1 locked up, which if people below are correct they do.

Union is a lock for a #1. I know what CHN has predicted and I know how the NCAA operates. I feel Union is a 98% lock for Bridgeport. The scenario I do not like is Union and QU being tied for 3rd in the PWR and the commitee, which has some say in the matter, putting dollars ahead of an assumed tiebreaker (RPI %) and placing QC in Bridgeport.

 

[aweise]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Union is a lock for a #1. I know what CHN has predicted and I know how the NCAA operates. I feel Union is a 98% lock for Bridgeport. The scenario I do not like is Union and QU being tied for 3rd in the PWR and the commitee, which has some say in the matter, putting dollars ahead of an assumed tiebreaker (RPI %) and placing QC in Bridgeport.

Well, remember they'll break the tie for 3rd by using the RPI...if Union's is higher than Quinnipiac's, then Union is #3. Kepler corrected me by indicating the committee should look at seeds 1-4 and place them as close to their home as possible, in order. Thus, Union should get sent to Bridgeport if they end up at #3.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Well, remember they'll break the tie for 3rd by using the RPI...if Union's is higher than Quinnipiac's, then Union is #3. Kepler corrected me by indicating the committee should look at seeds 1-4 and place them as close to their home as possible, in order. Thus, Union should get sent to Bridgeport if they end up at #3.

People keep using this word "tie." There is no such thing as a "tied" comparison - if A and B have equal number of comparison points, the one with the higher RPI wins the comparison. When the committee sits down to fill out the brackets, they only see the numbers 1-16 next to the team names, not any of the details as to why the teams are in that order - that is just the order, period. Based on the numbers I'm seeing people get out of the simulators, Union will be the #3 overall seed, and will be in Bridgeport.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Union is a lock for a #1. I know what CHN has predicted and I know how the NCAA operates. I feel Union is a 98% lock for Bridgeport. The scenario I do not like is Union and QU being tied for 3rd in the PWR and the commitee, which has some say in the matter, putting dollars ahead of an assumed tiebreaker (RPI %) and placing QC in Bridgeport.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh... I assumed (wrongly) you were thinking about the case where U was PWR 3 and Q was PWR 4 (which probably can happen), or U was a 1 band and Q was a 4 band (which I doubt can -- no way can Q fall that far). In each case, U would go to Bridgeport.

If U and Q actually tied for PWR 3 I could see the NC$$ put Q in Bridgeport, and unlike most NC$$ decisions it wouldn't even be severely morally repugnant.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

There is no such thing as a "tied" comparison - if A and B have equal number of comparison points, the one with the higher RPI wins the comparison.

Are we sure about this? I know the models use RPICH as the tie breaker now, but my impression was that was a convenience.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Will be rooting for you guys this weekend vs. Cornell.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Are we sure about this? I know the models use RPICH as the tie breaker now, but my impression was that was a convenience.

I'm fairly certain that there have been cases where seedings would have been different if the committee used anything but RPI to decide the comparisons - others can confirm or deny. It's not written as part of "the rules," but I'm pretty sure we have evidence that this is what they have done in the past - which doesn't necessarily prove that it is what they WILL do in the future, of course, but some consistency does seem to be emerging in the last 10-15 years.

 

[BigAl]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Quinnipiac will most likely be in Bridgeport as a 2 seed unless Ferris and Wisconsin lose and Q wins out. Union is a lock at Bridgeport. Nothing can change that

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Quinnipiac will most likely be in Bridgeport as a 2 seed unless Ferris and Wisconsin lose and Q wins out. Union is a lock at Bridgeport. Nothing can change that

Interesting thought. I can see the desire for QU to be close to Bridgeport which is like a home game. QU is 14-4-2 at home this year but only 8-4-3 on the road and 2-0-1 neutral. Union is 13-2-3 on the road and 0-1-0 on neutral ice. The problem is, what if Colgate and Cornell don't make it? That puts both remaining ECAC teams in one region so at best only one will emerge. It will be interesting to see if the committee lets that happen. If Q is sent out to Cincinnati, how do you think they will do? I guess if you are a QU fan and you are certain you will beat Union anyway, why should you care if both teams are placed in the same region?

 

[UnionFan4Life]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

My friend was sitting in-front of Eli for Saturday's game and he said "his injury is getting better and he should be ready for this weekend." Take that for what it's worth.

 

[BigAl]

Interesting thought. I can see the desire for QU to be close to Bridgeport which is like a home game. QU is 14-4-2 at home this year but only 8-4-3 on the road and 2-0-1 neutral. Union is 13-2-3 on the road and 0-1-0 on neutral ice. The problem is, what if Colgate and Cornell don't make it? That puts both remaining ECAC teams in one region so at best only one will emerge. It will be interesting to see if the committee lets that happen. If Q is sent out to Cincinnati, how do you think they will do? I guess if you are a QU fan and you are certain you will beat Union anyway, why should you care if both teams are placed in the same region?

I think U and Q is a great matchup. Both teams represent the ECAC very well and I'm not certain we will beat you guys. It would be disappointing for only us two to make it so lets both lose Friday hahaha.

If Q gets the 1 seed I think we would have a more favorable draw but I think the team would love to play in front of as many fans as possible. Because this is only our 2nd go around I don't quite know how we'd fare traveling elsewhere. We traveled well to Providence last year and were the best represented in Pittsburgh but I'm not sure if that was because it was our first go round and people didn't know when it'd happen again or people are actually willing to travel now. From what I've been told by multiple people, the committee will make Bridgeport happen for QU if it's available (only case not is if we win out and ferris and Wisconsin lose).

We shall see what happens. Best of luck Friday and we might meet again. And again hahaha. Hope Lichtenwald is back and we get Federico back so it's a fair fight if we get to play.

Congrats on the great regular season as well (for some reason I'm in a good mood hahaha).

 

[johnk]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Quinnipiac will most likely be in Bridgeport as a 2 seed unless Ferris and Wisconsin lose and Q wins out. Union is a lock at Bridgeport. Nothing can change that

QU is about 30 min from Bridgeport and 90 min from Worcester. If Union and QU are the only ECAC teams to make the NCAA I wouldn't doubt that QU is sent to Worcester to keep the only 2 ECAC teams out of the same bracket.

 

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

QU is about 30 min from Bridgeport and 90 min from Worcester. If Union and QU are the only ECAC teams to make the NCAA I wouldn't doubt that QU is sent to Worcester to keep the only 2 ECAC teams out of the same bracket.

That would be my hope as well.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Ticket & bus packages on sale for ECAC Championships at Lake Placid
http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2014/3/4/MICE_0304143610.aspx

*All reservations for the bus must be made by Wednesday, March 19 at 2 p.m. Fans must have a game ticket to board the bus.*
To purchase the package and if you have any questions please call 518-388-6020.

Not sure this hotel information is accurate.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Shameless Plug Dept. For those who have game 3 Dartmouth tickets, consider donating the value of them to the Garnet Blades. The other options are refund or credit against next year's tickets. I think you have until next week to act.