Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
I wonder if this is true as a rule.
I wonder if this is true as a rule.
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115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
- Thread starter joecct
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bronconick
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Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
While obviously Obama is black, that wasn't my point. Rather, that he was a Democrat like Hilary. Presumably someone like Pence wasn't going to vote for her regardless of her gender.
I assume all the High Elves and Numenoreans voted for her. All the Trolls, Orcs, and Balrogs voted against her for various reasons, misogyny, if you like. It doesn't matter because that's not enough to win or lose. She needed less than half of the good People of Gondor and Hobbits of the Shire. Hilary and Scooby are suggesting they are half misogynists?
I just want to be sure I'm getting it right.
While obviously Obama is black, that wasn't my point. Rather, that he was a Democrat like Hilary. Presumably someone like Pence wasn't going to vote for her regardless of her gender.
I assume all the High Elves and Numenoreans voted for her. All the Trolls, Orcs, and Balrogs voted against her for various reasons, misogyny, if you like. It doesn't matter because that's not enough to win or lose. She needed less than half of the good People of Gondor and Hobbits of the Shire. Hilary and Scooby are suggesting they are half misogynists?
I just want to be sure I'm getting it right.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
I don't really know. The first two contraries that popped in my head were Marie Curie won a Nobel 50 years before Ralph Bunche; Hattie McDaniel won an Oscar 24 years before Sidney Poitier.
I don't really know. The first two contraries that popped in my head were Marie Curie won a Nobel 50 years before Ralph Bunche; Hattie McDaniel won an Oscar 24 years before Sidney Poitier.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
There's only one, maybe two females in that saga who weren't weak, weepy, and kept in their place. While it's fun to think of conservatives as Orcs, I'm not sure why we'd really consider that story a worthy testament to the power of the Sisterhood. It's a book about white dudes, written by a white dude, for a white dude audience.
There's only one, maybe two females in that saga who weren't weak, weepy, and kept in their place. While it's fun to think of conservatives as Orcs, I'm not sure why we'd really consider that story a worthy testament to the power of the Sisterhood. It's a book about white dudes, written by a white dude, for a white dude audience.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
Don't make me go all Tolkien geeky on you, it wouldn't be pretty.
There have been lots of scholarly articles written on the subject of Tolkein's female characters, a great many of which argue exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting. I imagine there has been millions of words written on internet discussion boards as well on that very subject, so I won't add much to it here. While old J.R.R.'s female characters are relatively fewer in number, there are at least a dozen quite spectacular ones I can think of off the top of my head. As with everything Tolkien, there's always quite a bit more there than at first meets the eye.
There's only one, maybe two females in that saga who weren't weak, weepy, and kept in their place. While it's fun to think of conservatives as Orcs, I'm not sure why we'd really consider that story a worthy testament to the power of the Sisterhood. It's a book about white dudes, written by a white dude, for a white dude audience.
Don't make me go all Tolkien geeky on you, it wouldn't be pretty.
There have been lots of scholarly articles written on the subject of Tolkein's female characters, a great many of which argue exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting. I imagine there has been millions of words written on internet discussion boards as well on that very subject, so I won't add much to it here. While old J.R.R.'s female characters are relatively fewer in number, there are at least a dozen quite spectacular ones I can think of off the top of my head. As with everything Tolkien, there's always quite a bit more there than at first meets the eye.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
The problem is the hobbits. There in the shire, far (they think) from danger, they live kind of feet up and mind in neutral so to speak. Politics is very much not their thing. They're essentially good, but they're simply not engaged, let alone heroic.
We always have enough pure numbers to beat the orcs. (I thought the Balrog was not a race but just one dude -- in the Harvard Lampoon parody, he was "The Ballhog," and I don't remember there being trolls at all in Tolkien though obviously I am old and senile.) The problem is most of our numbers go through life blissfully unaware of the evil growing in Mordor.
The problem is the hobbits. There in the shire, far (they think) from danger, they live kind of feet up and mind in neutral so to speak. Politics is very much not their thing. They're essentially good, but they're simply not engaged, let alone heroic.
We always have enough pure numbers to beat the orcs. (I thought the Balrog was not a race but just one dude -- in the Harvard Lampoon parody, he was "The Ballhog," and I don't remember there being trolls at all in Tolkien though obviously I am old and senile.) The problem is most of our numbers go through life blissfully unaware of the evil growing in Mordor.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
I am willing to bet that Tolkien had absolutely no agenda in either direction for women in his works. Sometimes Gandalf's staff is just a staff.
There's only one, maybe two females in that saga who weren't weak, weepy, and kept in their place. While it's fun to think of conservatives as Orcs, I'm not sure why we'd really consider that story a worthy testament to the power of the Sisterhood. It's a book about white dudes, written by a white dude, for a white dude audience.
I am willing to bet that Tolkien had absolutely no agenda in either direction for women in his works. Sometimes Gandalf's staff is just a staff.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
I'd agree with the shire analogy for the most part, which is my point. Or I suppose my question. In swing states there was clearly a good deal of cross over voting. 20 point swings from Obama to Trump in several areas by the Shire Folk who participated. I've lived a few places and known a lot of people and even among the many Orcs with camo upholstered couches below velvet John Wayne-over-the-the-flag pictures I've known and know, I just can't think of any that wouldn't vote for a woman. (And it's not like they're too PC to say so.) They liked Peg Thatcher and likely might have gone for a Condi Rice. But that's entirely anecdotal. So what I'm getting at is that among the left and the part of the the middle needed, the contention is that misogyny played a major factor. I'm suspicious and would like to know if that's actually true, or even if that's at least perceived to be true by folks around here?
Hmmm... It's been 15 years at least since I read any Tolkien, but... regarding Balrogs: Balrogs were a race of corrupted lesser god types known as the Maiar and the Captains of Angband under the original fallen Vala (Gods) Melkor. After the defeat of Melkor in the First Age, the Balrogs scattered to the depths of the earth where they remained hidden. tBalrog in LOTR is one that the Dwarves of Moria stumbled upon in digging a bit too deep. (Uncovering a Balrog in West Virginia is another danger in coal mining, I suppose.) Sauron is also a Maiar, the most powerful of that race, as are Gandalf and Saruman, albeit much lesser ones.
Which brings us to the fact that the only two good side beings in Middle Earth as it pertains to Power, that could stand alone against a Balrog would be Gandalf and Cate Blanchett. Galadriel seems a bit weird, (maybe because she is around 6500 years old) but she alone of all characters is powerful enough to wrestle with Sauron in thought and come away unscathed. Among many examples commonly cited, a minor but important female character in the Silmarilion, Aredhel, says to her oppressive bros, "I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me!" Which isn't too terrible for a white guy in 1917 or so.
Edit: Also: Trolls.
I'd agree with the shire analogy for the most part, which is my point. Or I suppose my question. In swing states there was clearly a good deal of cross over voting. 20 point swings from Obama to Trump in several areas by the Shire Folk who participated. I've lived a few places and known a lot of people and even among the many Orcs with camo upholstered couches below velvet John Wayne-over-the-the-flag pictures I've known and know, I just can't think of any that wouldn't vote for a woman. (And it's not like they're too PC to say so.) They liked Peg Thatcher and likely might have gone for a Condi Rice. But that's entirely anecdotal. So what I'm getting at is that among the left and the part of the the middle needed, the contention is that misogyny played a major factor. I'm suspicious and would like to know if that's actually true, or even if that's at least perceived to be true by folks around here?
Hmmm... It's been 15 years at least since I read any Tolkien, but... regarding Balrogs: Balrogs were a race of corrupted lesser god types known as the Maiar and the Captains of Angband under the original fallen Vala (Gods) Melkor. After the defeat of Melkor in the First Age, the Balrogs scattered to the depths of the earth where they remained hidden. tBalrog in LOTR is one that the Dwarves of Moria stumbled upon in digging a bit too deep. (Uncovering a Balrog in West Virginia is another danger in coal mining, I suppose.) Sauron is also a Maiar, the most powerful of that race, as are Gandalf and Saruman, albeit much lesser ones.
Which brings us to the fact that the only two good side beings in Middle Earth as it pertains to Power, that could stand alone against a Balrog would be Gandalf and Cate Blanchett. Galadriel seems a bit weird, (maybe because she is around 6500 years old) but she alone of all characters is powerful enough to wrestle with Sauron in thought and come away unscathed. Among many examples commonly cited, a minor but important female character in the Silmarilion, Aredhel, says to her oppressive bros, "I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me!" Which isn't too terrible for a white guy in 1917 or so.
Edit: Also: Trolls.
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
Yeah, I really don't think misogyny is as big of a factor as Hillary and third-wave feminists want to believe. What it really boils down to is, 25 years of smear campaigns and phony scandalmongering against the Clintons, finally paid off for the Rs. Americans are tired of hearing the Clinton name, tired of seeing them on TV, and just want them to retire and go away.
Yeah, I really don't think misogyny is as big of a factor as Hillary and third-wave feminists want to believe. What it really boils down to is, 25 years of smear campaigns and phony scandalmongering against the Clintons, finally paid off for the Rs. Americans are tired of hearing the Clinton name, tired of seeing them on TV, and just want them to retire and go away.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
"Whips of many thongs" are available at Spartacus in Portland.
"Whips of many thongs" are available at Spartacus in Portland.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
Sexism was not a reason for Hillary losing. The sexists, however large, are a subset of the Republican base voters. There wasn't a single one of those votes Hillary was going to pick up.
It's the same with racism, to a point. The racists, however large, are a subset of the Republican base voters. There wasn't a single one of those votes Obama was going to pick up. The one difference was Obama seemed to magnetize racists to come out of the woodwork for the GOP. I'm not sure this happened with the sexists. There was plenty of Hillary Derangement, but I think that was primarily driven by the Clinton Derangement that the Echo Chamber has been using to get rich for 25 years.
Sexism was not a reason for Hillary losing. The sexists, however large, are a subset of the Republican base voters. There wasn't a single one of those votes Hillary was going to pick up.
It's the same with racism, to a point. The racists, however large, are a subset of the Republican base voters. There wasn't a single one of those votes Obama was going to pick up. The one difference was Obama seemed to magnetize racists to come out of the woodwork for the GOP. I'm not sure this happened with the sexists. There was plenty of Hillary Derangement, but I think that was primarily driven by the Clinton Derangement that the Echo Chamber has been using to get rich for 25 years.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
And all that is irrelevant. Trump got Romney numbers. Clinton voters didn't come out. You can't explain away the misogyny just because it was the Democrats who were misogynist. There is a subset of Democratic voters who will not vote for a woman. You know it. I know it. That's one of the many groups within the Democratic party that stayed home on election day. Is that a huge group? No. But, it wasn't a huge number that lost the election now was it?
And all that is irrelevant. Trump got Romney numbers. Clinton voters didn't come out. You can't explain away the misogyny just because it was the Democrats who were misogynist. There is a subset of Democratic voters who will not vote for a woman. You know it. I know it. That's one of the many groups within the Democratic party that stayed home on election day. Is that a huge group? No. But, it wasn't a huge number that lost the election now was it?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
No, I don't "know it." I think it's a mistaken premise with nothing behind it but a tired "sky is falling" shtick. People didn't not vote for Hillary because she was a woman. People did not vote for Hillary because she's fundamentally unlikable, and because the Echo Chamber successfully made her out to be Satan.
Warren, Sebelius, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, or McCaskill all win that election, just as Harris will win in 2020.
No, I don't "know it." I think it's a mistaken premise with nothing behind it but a tired "sky is falling" shtick. People didn't not vote for Hillary because she was a woman. People did not vote for Hillary because she's fundamentally unlikable, and because the Echo Chamber successfully made her out to be Satan.
Warren, Sebelius, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, or McCaskill all win that election, just as Harris will win in 2020.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
Klobuchar doesnt win that election at all. Warren I think has issues as well. You are taking a huge leap pretending that the Right wont go after every candidate the same way and if they find something wont destroy them over it. Especially warren, her personality is so off putting to many people she would have issues all over the place.
To deny that some Democrats are misogynists though is putting your head in the sand. Some are, some are also racist. Some hate Jews. Some are just jerkoffs. They are no more pure of heart than anyone else and to think otherwise is academically bankrupt.
Klobuchar doesnt win that election at all. Warren I think has issues as well. You are taking a huge leap pretending that the Right wont go after every candidate the same way and if they find something wont destroy them over it. Especially warren, her personality is so off putting to many people she would have issues all over the place.
To deny that some Democrats are misogynists though is putting your head in the sand. Some are, some are also racist. Some hate Jews. Some are just jerkoffs. They are no more pure of heart than anyone else and to think otherwise is academically bankrupt.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
Warren's personality isn't off-putting to me at all, though to be fair that may simply be because I tend to be on the same wavelength as professors. I would be honestly surprised if more people found her off-putting than, say, Obama, who has the same problem with the proles ("you tryin' to say you're smarter n' me?!")
I'm not "pretending" the Right won't attack anybody with a (D). Obviously that's their signature move. But Hillary was uniquely vulnerable for two reasons (1) you want off-putting? She would be the Olympic champion. (2) 25 years of accumulation. She was the RWNJ dream Democratic nominee.
What is with this crap of reading minds, by the way? "You know it." "Pretending." Don't quit your day job, you're not cut out to be a Mentalist.
I can't believe I even have to say this but I will. Yes. Of course some Democrats are sexist, or racist, or cannibals. We are talking about probabilities. There are no absolute statements concerning sufficiently large groupings of human beings except that one.
Warren's personality isn't off-putting to me at all, though to be fair that may simply be because I tend to be on the same wavelength as professors. I would be honestly surprised if more people found her off-putting than, say, Obama, who has the same problem with the proles ("you tryin' to say you're smarter n' me?!")
I'm not "pretending" the Right won't attack anybody with a (D). Obviously that's their signature move. But Hillary was uniquely vulnerable for two reasons (1) you want off-putting? She would be the Olympic champion. (2) 25 years of accumulation. She was the RWNJ dream Democratic nominee.
What is with this crap of reading minds, by the way? "You know it." "Pretending." Don't quit your day job, you're not cut out to be a Mentalist.
I can't believe I even have to say this but I will. Yes. Of course some Democrats are sexist, or racist, or cannibals. We are talking about probabilities. There are no absolute statements concerning sufficiently large groupings of human beings except that one.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 115th Congress. In Bridge, Can Hearts be Trumped? In Spades!
I wouldn't say the one D, because most half-way decent candidates would have had no trouble with The Toddler Tyrant, but Biden would have won with near Obama 2008 numbers, yes. I don't believe he would have flipped any additional states because the country is simply too polarized right now, and he would have lost IN because the Obama win there in 2008 was a once-in-a-thousand-trials outlier.
I wouldn't say the one D, because most half-way decent candidates would have had no trouble with The Toddler Tyrant, but Biden would have won with near Obama 2008 numbers, yes. I don't believe he would have flipped any additional states because the country is simply too polarized right now, and he would have lost IN because the Obama win there in 2008 was a once-in-a-thousand-trials outlier.
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