RPI 2025–26: Off the Critical List and In Recovery

[kurt stutt]

Edit: P.S. I don't think this dramatic a renovation will ever happen. I think the original talk about $100M is probably right. If they have that kind of budget a new building would be better (although that raises the other major question, where?).

Same spot.

Having thought about this enough times, this is my dream scenario. It assumes sufficient funding (as everything does in life):

1. Phase 2 of ECAV included an indoor practice facility located on what is the southern half of Upper Renwyck Field. That is the field beyond the north end of the ECAV stadium (the open end zone). Build that.

2. Install a temporary ice rink and temporary bleachers in that building. That becomes the home for the hockey teams during construction. If they can play hockey on a temporary rink at Dodger Stadium, they can do it indoors in the Northeast.

3. Tear down the HFH.

4. Build a new rink on the HFH site. It is on a hill, so use that advantage for an East entrance so the fans can enter directly onto the concourse level, which would accommodate most of the people who park near the arena.

Plan for 75+ years in the building, then none of us will ever need to discuss the arena situation again. That is a problem the Class of 2101 can look forward to.

This is likely still doable if they repair the floor this off-season on the expectation of building a new arena around the newish floor. And get the money, it is always the money.

 

[rpi82]

Same spot.

Having thought about this enough times, this is my dream scenario. It assumes sufficient funding (as everything does in life):

1. Phase 2 of ECAV included an indoor practice facility located on what is the southern half of Upper Renwyck Field. That is the field beyond the north end of the ECAV stadium (the open end zone). Build that.

2. Install a temporary ice rink and temporary bleachers in that building. That becomes the home for the hockey teams during construction. If they can play hockey on a temporary rink at Dodger Stadium, they can do it indoors in the Northeast.

3. Tear down the HFH.

4. Build a new rink on the HFH site. It is on a hill, so use that advantage for an East entrance so the fans can enter directly onto the concourse level, which would accommodate most of the people who park near the arena.
Y idea
Plan for 75+ years in the building, then none of us will ever need to discuss the arena situation again. That is a problem the Class of 2101 can look forward to.

This is likely still doable if they repair the floor this off-season on the expectation of building a new arena around the newish floor. And get the money, it is always the money.

My ideal location would be on the field next to North Lot, but it ‘s not quite big enough. At best it would probably fit a small rink like at Colgate or Bentley.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

2. Install a temporary ice rink and temporary bleachers in that building. That becomes the home for the hockey teams during construction. If they can play hockey on a temporary rink at Dodger Stadium, they can do it indoors in the Northeast.

In the event of a new arena that makes HFH unavailable, I think RPI should investigate playing home games at the MVP Arena in Albany. Or even up in Glens Falls, which seems to have solid crowds for minor league hockey.

Beyond that, local options would be sparse. The HVCC Rink would have been an option, but that has been closed for years due to its own maintenance issues (maybe a well-heeled donor can offer to repair the HVCC rink in exchange for free use by RPI while the new one is built). Messa Rink at Union has already been repurposed to indoor training space for other sports.

Rinks off-campus are not ideal and raise issues, but a makeshift temporary rink can have other trade-offs, especially if it is really bare bones. Asking players to spend 25% or more of their college career in a facility like that is unfair if more professional environments are available. And might not be great for morale, retention, or recruiting.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

In the event of a new arena that makes HFH unavailable, I think RPI should investigate playing home games at the MVP Arena in Albany. Or even up in Glens Falls, which seems to have solid crowds for minor league hockey.

Beyond that, local options would be sparse. The HVCC Rink would have been an option, but that has been closed for years due to its own maintenance issues (maybe a well-heeled donor can offer to repair the HVCC rink in exchange for free use by RPI while the new one is built). Messa Rink at Union has already been repurposed to indoor training space for other sports.

Rinks off-campus are not ideal and raise issues, but a makeshift temporary rink can have other trade-offs, especially if it is really bare bones. Asking players to spend 25% or more of their college career in a facility like that is unfair if more professional environments are available. And might not be great for morale, retention, or recruiting.

I don't believe at this point that there is ANY thought or intention by the admin. to tear down HFH. They paid what I presume is a lot of money for a study that is sitting on someone's desk, that considered all of these scenarios and ultimately said: Renovations will cost you "X" and a new barn will cost "Y". The admin has chosen "X".

They wouldn't be spending $7mil on a new sheet only to turn around and demo it a few years later. Also, given the age of HFH, it is likely riddled with asbestos -- in a variety of materials, all over the building, all of which would need to be remediated before a demolition could occur. You'd lose many months on your construction schedule for that work alone.

But if we want to dream of a new build, there aren't any easy solutions as to "where" to play during a tear down. The MVP would be the obvious choice, but it is home to Siena basketball, so RPI would lose Friday/Saturday availability whenever there was a game conflict. You could likely navigate some conflicts, but certainly not all of them. It is also an expensive building to operate -- you have to staff it and thanks to its size, it takes a lot of people to make it run. So you'd pay a premium to the County to turn the ice on for you for the season.

That would put you back out in the streets.... Albany County, Knickerbacker, Saratoga Co. Rink , etc. None are optimal --- for players or fans and all have other commitments to CBA, Skidmore, etc. Glens Falls is too far and you'd also lose any Fri/Sat home dates that had conflicts with the Thunder.

St. Lawrence played a season at SUNY Canton during their refresh, but that rink is far newer and superior to any of the local muni rinks RPI would have to consider. If HVCC hadn't dropped the ball with their rink, then it would've been the obvious choice. Re-invigorating that rink is probably the best solution ...you might even get the County Exec to partner with you and assist with some grants, $$$, etc. Again, I don't expect it to happen.

 

[sezenack]

They're not building a new rink. They already decided that with the feasibility study for the past 2-3 years. I understand the arguments, but I think it ultimately came down to not wanting to be without a home rink while building the new one. Takes a huge hit to the fanbase and home atmosphere that will take a long time to recover. It's not going very well for Northeastern so far; a lot of their "home" games are in the other teams' buildings and a lot of them are far away from the school.

Right now, the fixes for the ice system and all this summer are guaranteed (it's very funny to me these are being marketed as renovations when they're required fixes). The other two phases that are $40 million each or so are entirely dependent on fundraising, which Dr. Bowers is working hard on. We'll see if it comes to fruition. I'm skeptical, but the facilities desperately need updating.

 

[jericho]

In the event of a new arena that makes HFH unavailable, I think RPI should investigate playing home games at the MVP Arena in Albany. Or even up in Glens Falls, which seems to have solid crowds for minor league hockey.

Beyond that, local options would be sparse. The HVCC Rink would have been an option, but that has been closed for years due to its own maintenance issues (maybe a well-heeled donor can offer to repair the HVCC rink in exchange for free use by RPI while the new one is built). Messa Rink at Union has already been repurposed to indoor training space for other sports.

Rinks off-campus are not ideal and raise issues, but a makeshift temporary rink can have other trade-offs, especially if it is really bare bones. Asking players to spend 25% or more of their college career in a facility like that is unfair if more professional environments are available. And might not be great for morale, retention, or recruiting.

The Knickerbacker Arena in Lansingburgh could be an option. The city just dumped $2M into renovating it, but I have no idea on the adequacy of the locker rooms. Last I knew before it closed, it had a seating capacity of approximately 1500, all on one side, and let’s face it, RPI hasn’t been pulling in much more than that for a non/rivalry game. I’m sure if needed the city could have worked with Marty and the Admin, and the Fri/Sat nights would have been wide open there. Plenty of parking, other activities for kids in between periods to go outside and burn off some energy, and easily accessible. And, we could lure Doc back to a game, seeing how Verdiles is approximately 1.5 miles away

 

[tony/troy]

I don't believe at this point that there is ANY thought or intention by the admin. to tear down HFH. They paid what I presume is a lot of money for a study that is sitting on someone's desk, that considered all of these scenarios and ultimately said: Renovations will cost you "X" and a new barn will cost "Y". The admin has chosen "X".

They wouldn't be spending $7mil on a new sheet only to turn around and demo it a few years later. Also, given the age of HFH, it is likely riddled with asbestos -- in a variety of materials, all over the building, all of which would need to be remediated before a demolition could occur. You'd lose many months on your construction schedule for that work alone.

But if we want to dream of a new build, there aren't any easy solutions as to "where" to play during a tear down. The MVP would be the obvious choice, but it is home to Siena basketball, so RPI would lose Friday/Saturday availability whenever there was a game conflict. You could likely navigate some conflicts, but certainly not all of them. It is also an expensive building to operate -- you have to staff it and thanks to its size, it takes a lot of people to make it run. So you'd pay a premium to the County to turn the ice on for you for the season.

That would put you back out in the streets.... Albany County, Knickerbacker, Saratoga Co. Rink , etc. None are optimal --- for players or fans and all have other commitments to CBA, Skidmore, etc. Glens Falls is too far and you'd also lose any Fri/Sat home dates that had conflicts with the Thunder.

St. Lawrence played a season at SUNY Canton during their refresh, but that rink is far newer and superior to any of the local muni rinks RPI would have to consider. If HVCC hadn't dropped the ball with their rink, then it would've been the obvious choice. Re-invigorating that rink is probably the best solution ...you might even get the County Exec to partner with you and assist with some grants, $$$, etc. Again, I don't expect it to happen.

Just can't see the Albany County rink, Frear Park, downtown Albany or Glens Falls as viable options. IMO the three best options for a temporary home, should one be needed, listed from least desirable to better are:

1) Saratoga Skating Rink home to Skidmore Hockey.

Pros- Only has one main college tenant that is on the road as often as a D1 program. Can hold 1,500 and we are only averaging under 1,700 in Troy. Only 34 miles (50 minutes) from the Fieldhouse. Adequate parking. Most of the trip is highway. Nice, safe neighborhood.

Cons (based on personal experience)- Go there at least once a year, usually when defending three time D3 champ Hobart visits (like this Saturday). Place is a freezing cold sewer no matter what the temperature is outside. Forecast high for this Saturday is 8 degrees. It may be 9 inside. Doubt RPI fans would have much interest in going there on a regular basis.

2) Lansinsburg Rink.

Pros- Has no main college tenant. Can supposedly hold 1,500 but I would not bet a whole lot on that without seeing it for myself (have not been there post renovation). Located just minutes from the Fieldhouse.

Cons- IMO most definitely not a nice, safe neighborhood. No idea if there is adequate parking but, even if there is, seriously doubt RPI fans (especially the older ones) would have much interest in going to that area after dark.

1) Lansing Chapman Rink home to Williams Hockey (one nobody has mentioned yet).

Pros- Extremely nice, charming and nostalgic old wooden barn (built in the early 60's) that RPI fans would probably enjoy going to. Only has one main college tenant that is on the road as often as a D1 program. Can hold 2,500 which is more than we need these days. Most direct route is only 32 miles (51 minutes) from the Fieldhouse (about the same as Skidmore). Adequate parking including the fairly close football stadium lot. Nice, safe neighborhood.

Cons- There are no highway options. Most direct route is hilly, narrow, curvy and involves navigating a lengthy mountain pass. Can get treacherous and downright dangerous, especially during the winter. Less curvy, flater and safer option is 36 miles (56 minutes) from the Fieldhouse. Even in non winter months I personally always take the safer option when going in that direction.

No alternate site is going to be ideal. They will all have at least one fly in the ointment.

 

[DrDemento]

The Knickerbacker Arena in Lansingburgh could be an option. The city just dumped $2M into renovating it, but I have no idea on the adequacy of the locker rooms. Last I knew before it closed, it had a seating capacity of approximately 1500, all on one side, and let’s face it, RPI hasn’t been pulling in much more than that for a non/rivalry game. I’m sure if needed the city could have worked with Marty and the Admin, and the Fri/Sat nights would have been wide open there. Plenty of parking, other activities for kids in between periods to go outside and burn off some energy, and easily accessible. And, we could lure Doc back to a game, seeing how Verdiles is approximately 1.5 miles away

If we knew the rink was that close to Verdile's I might try to convince Jenny to buy the rink! I can almost taste the Chicken Parm right now. Seems to me like we have no real alternative sites. has not been mentioned and might be only a small additional consideration but the ladies need a place to be available for them also and their home dates and the boy's home dates are not the same. Very obvious all of these things have been considered and that is why the decision to renovate has been made. The real shame though is that all of this should have been considered, planned and completed 10-20 years ago but someone had a different set of priorities.

 

[jericho]

Just can't see the Albany County rink, Frear Park, downtown Albany or Glens Falls as viable options. IMO the three best options for a temporary home, should one be needed, listed from least desirable to better are:

1) Saratoga Skating Rink home to Skidmore Hockey.

Pros- Only has one main college tenant that is on the road as often as a D1 program. Can hold 1,500 and we are only averaging under 1,700 in Troy. Only 34 miles (50 minutes) from the Fieldhouse. Adequate parking. Most of the trip is highway. Nice, safe neighborhood.

Cons (based on personal experience)- Go there at least once a year, usually when defending three time D3 champ Hobart visits (like this Saturday). Place is a freezing cold sewer no matter what the temperature is outside. Forecast high for this Saturday is 8 degrees. It may be 9 inside. Doubt RPI fans would have much interest in going there on a regular basis.

2) Lansinsburg Rink.

Pros- Has no main college tenant. Can supposedly hold 1,500 but I would not bet a whole lot on that without seeing it for myself (have not been there post renovation). Located just minutes from the Fieldhouse.

Cons- IMO most definitely not a nice, safe neighborhood. No idea if there is adequate parking but, even if there is, seriously doubt RPI fans (especially the older ones) would have much interest in going to that area after dark.

1) Lansing Chapman Rink home to Williams Hockey (one nobody has mentioned yet).

Pros- Extremely nice, charming and nostalgic old wooden barn (built in the early 60's) that RPI fans would probably enjoy going to. Only has one main college tenant that is on the road as often as a D1 program. Can hold 2,500 which is more than we need these days. Most direct route is only 32 miles (51 minutes) from the Fieldhouse (about the same as Skidmore). Adequate parking including the fairly close football stadium lot. Nice, safe neighborhood.

Cons- There are no highway options. Most direct route is hilly, narrow, curvy and involves navigating a lengthy mountain pass. Can get treacherous and downright dangerous, especially during the winter. Less curvy, flater and safer option is 36 miles (56 minutes) from the Fieldhouse. Even in non winter months I personally always take the safer option when going in that direction.

No alternate site is going to be ideal. They will all have at least one fly in the ointment.

Tony, the area isn’t as bad as you make it out to be

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

They're not building a new rink. They already decided that with the feasibility study for the past 2-3 years. I understand the arguments, but I think it ultimately came down to not wanting to be without a home rink while building the new one. Takes a huge hit to the fanbase and home atmosphere that will take a long time to recover. It's not going very well for Northeastern so far; a lot of their "home" games are in the other teams' buildings and a lot of them are far away from the school.

Right now, the fixes for the ice system and all this summer are guaranteed (it's very funny to me these are being marketed as renovations when they're required fixes). The other two phases that are $40 million each or so are entirely dependent on fundraising, which Dr. Bowers is working hard on. We'll see if it comes to fruition. I'm skeptical, but the facilities desperately need updating.

Agreed. The new building ship has sailed. It's now a matter of how much cash they can raise. I would be interested to know if Marty /Bowers have formed a committee (or sub committee of the BOD) helping attract some big dollar donors. If you had a person like Curtis Priem making phone calls it'd sure as heck would put some horse power behind the effort. Keeping in mind of course that HFH project(s) are but one small part of the larger facilities master plan for RPI.

 

[sezenack]

Agreed. The new building ship has sailed. It's now a matter of how much cash they can raise. I would be interested to know if Marty /Bowers have formed a committee (or sub committee of the BOD) helping attract some big dollar donors. If you had a person like Curtis Priem making phone calls it'd sure as heck would put some horse power behind the effort. Keeping in mind of course that HFH project(s) are but one small part of the larger facilities master plan for RPI.

Maybe if Shirley hadn't been an idiot, we could have used the $300 million for the useless EMPAC and covered facilities upgrades for the entire campus, HFH included. Too bad we had the worst college president to ever exist

 

[DrDemento]

i guess i wasn't the only one who noticed

 

[tony/troy]

Maybe if Shirley hadn't been an idiot, we could have used the $300 million for the useless EMPAC and covered facilities upgrades for the entire campus, HFH included. Too bad we had the worst college president to ever exist

Not completely totally useless. Actually did host one (and possibly the only) performer that any typical person ever even heard of. That was the late, great Aretha Franklin. However, she was past 80 when she performed there.

Most of the other performers that appeared there were the likes of some guy from someplace like Bangladesh who played a citar or a oboe in front of a virtually empty building. $300 million for stuff like that makes no sense to me.

 

[tony/troy]

Tony, the area isn’t as bad as you make it out to be

It's only as bad as the color coded maps at CrimeGrades.org makes 103rd Street of the Burgh out to be. 103rd, where the rink is located, is not as bad as three or so dead red blocks of the 120's are, but it is not the desired greenish you would want for an after dark stroll or jog either.

When there is a desire to do adequate research, the relevant data can usually be found.

 

[Engineers]

Maybe if Shirley hadn't been an idiot, we could have used the $300 million for the useless EMPAC and covered facilities upgrades for the entire campus, HFH included. Too bad we had the worst college president to ever exist

She really was the worst. Her ego and arrogance were cringy. The idiot built the empac and it sits empty 98% of the time. Meanwhile the dorms and HFH were left to wither away

 

[DavidNardolillo]

Maybe if Shirley hadn't been an idiot, we could have used the $300 million for the useless EMPAC and covered facilities upgrades for the entire campus, HFH included. Too bad we had the worst college president to ever exist

I actually think the concert hall in EMPAC is really nice, but underutilized as an entertainment venue. But maybe you can fit a rink in there . . .

 

[Ralph Baer]

Not completely totally useless. Actually did host one (and possibly the only) performer that any typical person ever even heard of. That was the late, great Aretha Franklin. However, she was past 80 when she performed there.

Most of the other performers that appeared there were the likes of some guy from someplace like Bangladesh who played a citar or a oboe in front of a virtually empty building. $300 million for stuff like that makes no sense to me.

FWIW, the HFH had many performers I have heard of. https://archives.rpi.edu/big-name-concerts

 

[sezenack]

I actually think the concert hall in EMPAC is really nice, but underutilized as an entertainment venue. But maybe you can fit a rink in there . . .

Yeah it's very nice, but it never made sense for a technological university. AND as everyone has mentioned, the underutilization means it has a terrible ROI. The ROI for using that money on giving RPI's existing facilities on campus upgrades would have been much higher

 

[DrDemento]

FWIW, the HFH had many performers I have heard of. https://archives.rpi.edu/big-name-concerts

That list, while extensive, is missing many others who I remember performing during the 1960's at the HFH.

 

[tony/troy]

That list, while extensive, is missing many others who I remember performing during the 1960's at the HFH.

As someone whose six lifetime residences were all less than 5 miles from the Fieldhouse, I can verify that with 100% certainty. Rattled off several shows that I was at in a matter of seconds that are nowhere to be found on the list.

Most glaring omissions are late 50's through late 60's annual visits by Dick Clark's Winter Caravan and annual multi day performances from at the latest the early 60's through circa 1980 by the Ice Capades. Have no idea how anyone who compiles lists could have omitted or missed those two.

I did notice that the list includes that Frank was here. Unfortunately, it was Zappa. However, they missed that Sinatra was here too. Unfortunately, it was Nancy (as part of one of the Caravan shows as best as I can recall).