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Dump Term 2, Part 2: "A third term would be a big shattering."

Kepler said:
Violence never solved anything.

But the threat of violence...
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For there to be a threat...there needs to be evidence it could happen.

Look let me be clear 99.99999999999999999999999% of the time I abhor all of this stuff. It is antithetical to everything I was raised to believe.

But I was also raised to believe (as a Jew and the son of a History Major) that when the signs are there there is no going back. When one side is using violence and fear (both of violence and of upsetting norms) to subjugate others that is a sign. When one side is taking away rights piece by piece that is a sign. When one side is locking up political rivals that is a sign. When one side is flouting the rule of law that is a sign. When one side is consolidating power beneath the banner of one man or one party, that is a sign. And when one side is denigrating the other and criminalizing their behaviors and beliefs and threatening retribution that is a sign.

We have two choices here, we can keep on keeping on hoping the Ghandi/MLK method will win the day like we have been (unsuccessfully) or we can stand up and punch the bully in the balls and say "if you want to take this country you can do it by going through me!". This moment happens every time democracy is threatened in history and we have seen what works and what does not. I would rather be the IRA than Neville Phucking Chamberlain.

I wanted to believe we had sidestepped this in 2020...but 2024 proved now it is our turn to have History turn its eyes on us and wonder why we are so phucking stupid.
 
Handyman said:
We have two choices here, we can keep on keeping on hoping the Ghandi/MLK method will win the day like we have been (unsuccessfully) or we can stand up and punch the bully in the balls and say "if you want to take this country you can do it by going through me!".
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I am not disagreeing with you. I believe a bunch of things simultaneously, and they may seem self-contradictory, but that does not mean they are wrong, it just means they are poorly said and/or reality is more complex than any given logical model:

1. Violence usually make things worse.
2. Doing nothing is usually the best way to deal with bad situations.
3. Doing nothing is not usually the best way to deal with bad people.
4. The threat of violence is usually a good way to keep bad people from acting.
5. Threats usually do not impress people without an actual example.

Ergo...
 
Kepler said:
I am not disagreeing with you. I believe a bunch of things simultaneously, and they may seem self-contradictory, but that does not mean they are wrong, it just means they are poorly said and/or reality is more complex than any given logical model:

1. Violence usually make things worse.
2. Doing nothing is usually the best way to deal with bad situations.
3. Doing nothing is not usually the best way to deal with bad people.
4. The threat of violence is usually a good way to keep bad people from acting.
5. Threats usually do not impress people without an actual example.

Ergo...
Click to expand...
I wasn't arguing with you...you actually just posted what I was trying to say :) I was more adding to my defense in response to dx :)
 
Handyman said:
Im not.

You are the people Jim is talking about. We are beyond the point where we can talk this out...they are already committing horrific acts. Everything psych listed (which Im guessing is tongue in cheek) has already happened. They arent going to be stopped by us unless they fear our retribution.

This country was founded on political violence...most Democracies are. If we arent willing to match their ability to go all in we lost. You dont stop authoritarians with platitudes you stop them with revolution.


-Malcolm X
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Thanks but I’ll choose “not years of lead” for us.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Thanks but I’ll choose “not years of lead” for us.
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Usually the best policy.

Some landmarks to bear in mind:

1. They shut down the internet.
2. They shut down the elections.
3. They start the trains to the camps.
4. They come for you.

There is gonna be a place on that number line where the expected value function flips.
 
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