Covfefe-19 The 11th Part: Suck It Up And Die Grandpa I Need A Manicure!!

[psych]

So, every state should be pilloried because all of them are open?

 

[psych]

I mean, wasn’t it kind of inevitable we had to reopen? I know some places like Georgia opened full bore. That’s f-cking stupid. But, most places did a slower reopen. What else were they to do? It sucks we can’t stay closed until a vaccine is found. I wish we could.

 

[Kepler]

So, every state should be pilloried because all of them are open?

Not all openings are equal:

 

[rufus]

So we agree places like New York screwed up and waited too long to close? I agree with the rest of what you’re saying. Like I said back in March, the federal government completely f-cked over every state with its lack of preparedness. I’ll guess I’ll never understand the demonization of all Southerners over the coronavirus pandemic. If it’s because many of them voted for the dips-it whose government f-cked all of us over, okay, I understand. But, I don’t think most Southerners are doing this coronavirus thing any worse than anyone else. As soon as everyone’s economies reopened, including those in blue states, the rise in cases was inevitable, including in the South. I don’t think the numbers bare out that the South is getting hit any harder than expected. Maybe that’ll change two weeks from now, or two months from now. But, at the moment, nah.

Well, yes, they waited too long to close. But it's hard to formulate the popular will to shut something completely down when there are few known cases to justify such an extreme tactic. As I wrote, on March 13, there were 729 known cases in the entire state. Granted, that rides on how little we knew at the time: How fast the virus would multiply(although we should have had a hint based on China, and what was currently happening in Italy). And how many cases there actually were, and where they were located.

That's why we needed to be testing in January and February. To identify where those cases were. So instead of shutting down the entire city, or state, or eventually country, you could isolate the neighborhood, or the borough, or the airport, or small upstate town, wherever the clusters are occurring. But our president did not marshal the resources of our government to do that. He still hasn't done it, six months later.

If we had done that then, there would have been no need to shut down the entire country, and the virus would be largely eliminated and contained right now, not increasing in numbers. And we could be safely reopening. Not what we did, which was pretend the lockdown fr a month killed it off, and everything's ok now.

We've adopted Hovey's position, nothing you can do so ................(how do you make that shoulder shrug icon?)
Also, your "wartime president's" position. Surrendered without even beginning to fight.

 

[rufus]

So, every state should be pilloried because all of them are open?

I'm ok with that. Some less pilloried than others, but...............

The major issue is that this is an issue that never should have been left up to the individual states to deal with in the first place. We're a union, with a federal government, for a reason.

 

[psych]

He’s my president, but I didn’t vote for the f-cker.

I think 99% of us on here are in broad agreement on what needed to be done, and what needs to be done to keep cases down, since 99% of us listen(ed) to the experts. Spikes in cases in my area will result in having to treat more Covid patients. Covid patients, who are also actively suicidal but not allowed to cope by leaving their rooms, is a tough combination.

 

[SJHovey]

Not all openings are equal:

Minnesota is subject to "major restrictions?" Under what possible standard?

Everything here is open, basically, except for schools, and well, it's summer. Bars, gyms, pools, movie theaters, restaurants, etc... Yeah they might be limited to 250 people or 50% of fire code capacity, but that's it.

Masks aren't mandatory, but "encouraged." At risk people are encouraged to stay at home.

 

[Kepler]

Minnesota is subject to "major restrictions?" Under what possible standard?

Everything here is open, basically, except for schools, and well, it's summer. Bars, gyms, pools, movie theaters, restaurants, etc... Yeah they might be limited to 250 people or 50% of fire code capacity, but that's it.

Masks aren't mandatory, but "encouraged." At risk people are encouraged to stay at home.

Presumably those are "major restrictions" compared with Dumbf-ckistan.

 

[Slap Shot]

Not all openings are equal:

Are OH and IN considered the same or different? Their colors don't match yet neither do both have a corresponding color in the key.

 

[alfablue]

So, every state should be pilloried because all of them are open?

What's wrong with pointing out that they opened too early? Yes, they are going to open up, but the first ones who do are the ones who see the most reductions and continue to see them decline after the reopening.

Florida didn't really see the numbers low enough when they just gave up. From nearly 500 to now nearly 5000 per day- they jumped the gun. And instead of just letting things go, they could have phased it in like other states.

This isn't wave 2- this is wave one that just got away. And it's STILL not too late. Florida maybe near 0.5% of their population confirmed infected. So if they cut everything off today, I'd bet the most more they would get would be 50k, which is 0.25% more. The fallacy that nothing can be done is just that. If we just let it go, and the 3% deaths continue, and just 10% of the population gets infected, that's still around 60,000 deaths. For sure, once the sick population overwhelms the hospitals, the death rate will go up a lot.

Lets not pretend that nothing can be done. Just like we can't keep thinking that social distancing can't cut off the virus- it has and does.

For sure, the less Florida does, the worse impact of doing nothing will have on their economy.

 

[Handyman]

I would assume the chart is saying how they went about opening up. We didn't just open everything on day 1 we had steps and rules. You know the crap the MNGOP said was Walz acting tyrannical.

 

[Scarlet]

Are OH and IN considered the same or different? Their colors don't match yet neither do both have a corresponding color in the key.

They are the same color. Indiana has the lines due to the "varies by counties" shading over it.

 

[rufus]

I would assume the chart is saying how they went about opening up. We didn't just open everything on day 1 we had steps and rules. You know the crap the MNGOP said was Walz acting tyrannical.

Except, the federal government guidelines for opening up recommended(required?) states to have 14 consecutive days of falling cases before beginning to reopen.

Not one state met that criteria.

 

[psych]

What's wrong with pointing out that they opened too early? Yes, they are going to open up, but the first ones who do are the ones who see the most reductions and continue to see them decline after the reopening.

Florida didn't really see the numbers low enough when they just gave up. From nearly 500 to now nearly 5000 per day- they jumped the gun. And instead of just letting things go, they could have phased it in like other states.

This isn't wave 2- this is wave one that just got away. And it's STILL not too late. Florida maybe near 0.5% of their population confirmed infected. So if they cut everything off today, I'd bet the most more they would get would be 50k, which is 0.25% more. The fallacy that nothing can be done is just that. If we just let it go, and the 3% deaths continue, and just 10% of the population gets infected, that's still around 60,000 deaths. For sure, once the sick population overwhelms the hospitals, the death rate will go up a lot.

Lets not pretend that nothing can be done. Just like we can't keep thinking that social distancing can't cut off the virus- it has and does.

For sure, the less Florida does, the worse impact of doing nothing will have on their economy.

I’m not someone pretending nothing can be done. I assure you, I want everything to be done. If I was president, I’d be begging for states to stay locked down and providing all the resources the most powerful, richest government in the world has at its disposal to make sure its citizens could stay locked down as much as possible. I’m exactly the same as most of you on here, and I read the exact same articles as most of you on here. I know what needs to be done. I just find some of the finger pointing at Southerners, and calling them idiots or morons, hypocritical at best, based on what’s transpired so far. When I find myself agreeing with SJHovey on a couple of his posts about the coronavirus, when I called his as- out a couple months ago about downplaying everything and seemingly shifting his story, I know things have swung too far in the other direction. Just my simple, ultimately unimportant observation.

 

[rufus]

I think the reason Southerners or calling them idiots is because, as someone else pointed out, they not only had the example of China and Italy to base their virus response on, but also that of the Seattle and NYC/NJ metro areas. They had a month or two longer than either of those regions, and still did nothing to protect their citizens. In fact, many just ignored the methods those areas took to battle the spread, like masks, lockdowns and social distancing.

It's like you watch two people fall into the open sewer drain in the street, but you keep walking straight towards it yourself. That is stupid, or ignorant, or whatever you want to call it.

 

[psych]

I think the reason Southerners or calling them idiots is because, as someone else pointed out, they not only had the example of China and Italy to base their virus response on, but also that of the Seattle and NYC/NJ metro areas. They had a month or two longer than either of those regions, and still did nothing to protect their citizens. In fact, many just ignored the methods those areas took to battle the spread, like masks, lockdowns and social distancing.

It's like you watch two people fall into the open sewer drain in the street, but you keep walking straight towards it yourself. That is stupid, or ignorant, or whatever you want to call it.

Their governments may have been slow to respond because they suck and they’re stupid, but the citizens themselves weren’t. People don’t always take their cue from their elected officials. I mean, it doesn’t hurt to have someone sensible reminding you on TV to wear your mask, etc. I’m sure most of you like to think you’re independent-minded, and capable of making decisions best for yourself and your family without the governor having to tell you what to do.
I can’t remember which website, but a wise person on here once told me that when in doubt, it’s probably fivethirtyeight, that showed that across all 50 states, even before SIP orders were implemented, the majority of people stopped traveling. There might be an updated chart that has tracked people’s movements more recently that shows a significantly higher percentage of people in the South traveling more often and farther than people in the North (and West), when adjusting for what types of places are open in said states for people to travel to in the first place. If so, then I stand corrected.
Are the cases in places like Florida and Arizona similar growing at a similar rate to New York’s? Or, better yet, are they growing at the same pace as New York’s when controlling for population density, etc.? I haven’t seen those numbers- maybe someone here has, or has done the math themselves?

 

[Jeb2020]

Death rates falling dramatically since April. That’s good news.

https://reason.com/2020/06/22/daily-...y-since-april/

Also, 40% of Deaths from Long term care facilities. Which make up about 2% of the population.

 

[alfablue]

Their governments may have been slow to respond because they suck and they’re stupid, but the citizens themselves weren’t. People don’t always take their cue from their elected officials. I mean, it doesn’t hurt to have someone sensible reminding you on TV to wear your mask, etc. I’m sure most of you like to think you’re independent-minded, and capable of making decisions best for yourself and your family without the governor having to tell you what to do.
I can’t remember which website, but a wise person on here once told me that when in doubt, it’s probably fivethirtyeight, that showed that across all 50 states, even before SIP orders were implemented, the majority of people stopped traveling. There might be an updated chart that has tracked people’s movements more recently that shows a significantly higher percentage of people in the South traveling more often and farther than people in the North (and West), when adjusting for what types of places are open in said states for people to travel to in the first place. If so, then I stand corrected.
Are the cases in places like Florida and Arizona similar growing at a similar rate to New York’s? Or, better yet, are they growing at the same pace as New York’s when controlling for population density, etc.? I haven’t seen those numbers- maybe someone here has, or has done the math themselves?

Plenty of stupid people and hypocrites, etc- here in Michigan. The moron protesters who tried and failed to force the state back up again. None of them got or deserved a break. And I think many were wondering if they would start a new outbreak, etc.

Just like the citizens of Florida who think they know better.

I don't think anyone is labeling the entire state population morons, but there are certainly a bunch of very stupid people there. The data is very obvious on their own state health dept website- don't have to go and wonder if CNN of Faux have an agenda. Yet the blow up continues. And people are still going out, still protesting the idea of face masks, still out there labeling anyone who does something reasonable as alarmist and afraid.

The working solution is pretty obvious at this point. And enough people are not doing anything to stop what is going on. Those are stupid and selfish people.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Right but it isnt about whether there is a difference. It is about how he wants them to use the lesser number to make it look like there isnt as big of a problem as there is.

I agree with you about the motivation. I was just adding some nuance that quite often a patient is in an ICU and is not at an ICU level of care.

 

[Kepler]

Are OH and IN considered the same or different? Their colors don't match yet neither do both have a corresponding color in the key.

I think it means Ohio has mandatory state rules and Indiana has state rules which can be adopted or overruled by local authorities. I'm reading it as ideally they would be the same but in practice Indiana is weaker because local yokels will water down what restrictions there are.