What Does Big Ten Expansion Mean for Women's Hockey?

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Putting the numbers up so that it is known what the costs are for slOwSU women's hockey and how big the defecit is that has to come from the revenue from slOwSU men's football and basketball (which are the only programs in the black).

From the 2022 slOwSU fiscal report:

Total operating revenues for slOwSU athletics - $251,615,345
Total operating expenses for slOwSU athletics - #225,733,418

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $176,790
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $3,043,177

In the hole for $2,866,387

And for comparison (from the 2022 UofM Tunnelers financial report)

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $339,663
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $2,782,614

In the hole for $2,442,951

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

And not to slight the sinners (WisconSIN) on posting their numbers.

From WisconSIN's 2022 financial report:

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $707,424 *
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $3,063,973

In the hole for $2,356,549

* WisconSIN report has Direct Institutional Support money reported ($288,187) wereas the tunnelers and yuckeyes do not.

 

[Sierra]

tOSU athletic program made $250 million in '22 more than any other program in the country. Only a handful of athletic departments actually make money. UofM does not make any money. Unfortunately, all programs rely heavily on being subsidies by other revenue streams. tOSU has to fly everywhere vs. the rest of the WCHA, which might be why their budget is a bit more than the Gophers. The new BigTen media deal will definitely change the Gopher budget for the better. Good for the Big10 bad for everyone else.

 

[Lindsay]

I wonder what the revenues are comprised of for each of these referenced above?

The link fhf posted is pretty cool . How do you find that for another public school?

 

[Reddington]

Wisconsin Women's hockey revenue numbers are impressive even with the asterisk.

 

[ZedLeppelin]

And not to slight the sinners (WisconSIN) on posting their numbers.

From WisconSIN's 2022 financial report:

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $707,424 *
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $3,063,973

In the hole for $2,356,549

* WisconSIN report has Direct Institutional Support money reported ($288,187) wereas the tunnelers and yuckeyes do not.

Do you have the numbers for Penn State and women's hockey?

 

[Timothy A]

And not to slight the sinners (WisconSIN) on posting their numbers.

From WisconSIN's 2022 financial report:

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $707,424 *
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $3,063,973

In the hole for $2,356,549

* WisconSIN report has Direct Institutional Support money reported ($288,187) wereas the tunnelers and yuckeyes do not.

We're number 1! Take that Muzzy and Frosty.

 

[PSUfan]

From PSU's 2022 financial report:

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $1,298,349 --> this seems high and much of it (~$775K) is listed under "Team Only Contributions"
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $2,421,337

In the hole for $1,112,998. If you disregard the large amount of "team only contributions" subsidy then they're closer to $2 million in the hole similar to the other Big 10 teams.

 

[Cornholio]

Great work digging this info up - I know some of the expenses are a bit mis-leading since the all teams (men's and women's) gets charged for use of the on-campus ice rink, locker rooms, etc. which the university has to pay for anyhow so a bit of an accounting game. But, things like salaries, travel, equipment, schollys, etc., have to be paid for and would still yield most likely a 7-figure deficit number. This was the reason given for UND to cancel their women's program.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

The unanswered question is with four additional teams in the conference participate in the revenue sharing do they get equal shares and how much through the additional media and advertising does the Big Ten expect to take in so the current schools payouts aren't diminished? Will they increase?
We know the expansion is all about the money so they must anticipate a substantial financial boost to the conference.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Another question I have is if Ohio State's athletic department is going to become richer due to the conference expansion could this mean more money allotted towards our new women's arena?
Potentially they could make it the showcase for women's college hockey if the scenario I described materializes.

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

From PSU's 2022 financial report:

Total operating revenues for women's ice hockey - $1,298,349 --> this seems high and much of it (~$775K) is listed under "Team Only Contributions"
Total operating expenses for women's ice hockey - $2,421,337

In the hole for $1,112,998. If you disregard the large amount of "team only contributions" subsidy then they're closer to $2 million in the hole similar to the other Big 10 teams.

Thanks for adding this...I thought about it after I posted the other stuff but hadn't gotten back to it.

Here is the description from page 25 of PSU's financial report about the 775K:

8 Contributions $39,248,059 Input contributions provided and used by athletics in the reporting year including: Amounts received from individuals, corporations, associations, foundations, clubs or other organizations designated for the operations of the athletics program.
• Funds contributed by outside contributors for the payment of debt service, lease payments or rental fee expenses for athletic facilities in the reporting year.
• Amounts received above face value for tickets. Contributions shall include cash and marketable securities.
Do not report:
• Pledges until funds are provided to athletics for use.
• Contributions to be used in other reporting years.

They also have a category called "Other Operating Revenue" which shows $360,477...Seems like that is for stuff (whatever that stuff is) that doesn't fit into any of the other categories?

So about 1.1 million in in those two categories.


This is another article I found which has a nice chart on Net Operating Income for PSU...

https://onwardstate.com/2023/02/09/t...al-statements/

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

tOSU athletic program made $250 million in '22 more than any other program in the country. Only a handful of athletic departments actually make money. UofM does not make any money.

Accourding to this report extracted from the 2022 financial reports, the Tunnelers had more revenue than expenses (#29 on the list for reference)

 

[Cornholio]

Hockeybuckeye from what I have seen, no, not even UCLA/USC are getting full revenue right away. Oregon and Washington will get even less. Over time they will get equal shares. Hence the reason why I don't think it makes sense to add Berkley and Stanford - does the B1G really need/want another 2 Northwesterns? I think the discussion will shift to kicking the one they have out. As for the additional revenue and where it goes - short term maybe a bump in the athletic department but as soon as football splits off / has to pay players / treat players like employees with full benefits and union, all that football money will go solely to the football programs.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Hockeybuckeye from what I have seen, no, not even UCLA/USC are getting full revenue right away. Oregon and Washington will get even less. Over time they will get equal shares. Hence the reason why I don't think it makes sense to add Berkley and Stanford - does the B1G really need/want another 2 Northwesterns?

From what I understand of the Big Ten's plan is marketing and broadcasting rights are regional. Maryland and Rutgers extended them to the most populated area of the east coast. With UCLA & USC, Oregon & Washington they now blanket the entire West Coast. Nebraska pushed them further into the middle of the country.
I'm speculating next they'll turn their attention to the southeast possibly trying to poach SEC & ACC schools.

 

[Cornholio]

In any case, any expansion would be to non-hockey playing (much less women's hockey playing) schools. Yes, it seems the B1G passed on Cal and Stanford to go after some schools in the southeast. I think they will try to raid the ACC, even with the huge grant-of-rights issues. I don't think any SEC school would be interested; this is a battle between the SEC and B1G for top dog. The big12 will have a seat, as well as the ACC (even after being raided), but those will be "3 and 4" in terms of money received. One interesting speculation is if the B1G will expand their "affiliate" membership in hockey (and other sports) if they really need more content. Oddly, I could see some of the ECAC D1 hockey playing D3 schools being of interest first on the men's side, and then on the women's. The Hockey East schools and others that have D1 athletic departments might be harder but not impossible. Notre Dame is in the B1G for hockey afterall (boo!). John's Hopkins is in the B1G for women's lacrosse so could provide a guidepost.

 

[robertearle]

I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet, but when speculating about other schools being added to the Big Ten (generally, not specifically for football or hockey, etc.), keep in mind the importance of membership in something called the Association of American Universities.

Wikipedia describes it as "an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education."

The saying goes that the Big Ten isn't a sports conference; it is a conference of research universities that also happen to play sports. While it is getting harder to ignore the sports component to it all, it is worth noting that ALL Big Ten schools are (with one exception that I'll note in a moment) members of the AAU. And ALL schools that have joined the Big Ten over the past number of years were AAU members at the time they were accepted into the Big Ten. And that goes for USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington, etc etc.

The one exception is currently Nebraska, Nebraska was an AAU member when they joined the Big Ten, but left the AAU in a dispute regarding the distance - figurative and literal - between the university and their medical school.

You may think I'm being naive or exaggerating, but I'm not. If a school being speculated about isn't a member of AAU, it is VERY unlikely to get into the Big Ten.

I saw an article last week speculating about Clemson and Florida State. Not gonna happen.

You can find a list of current (and former) AAU members here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associ...n_Universities

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet, but when speculating about other schools being added to the Big Ten (generally, not specifically for football or hockey, etc.), keep in mind the importance of membership in something called the Association of American Universities.

Wikipedia describes it as "an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education."

The saying goes that the Big Ten isn't a sports conference; it is a conference of research universities that also happen to play sports. [/URL]

I agree completely about the research aspect, there's big money in government research grants. Ohio State has been upgrading its medical center for years and is currently in a massive building and expansion of it and it's deeply devoted to medical research.
They said I was truly minutes from death when I was hospitalized there with cancer and COVID. One of my friends who recently retired as one of the heads of OSU's pharmacology department told me if I had been at any other hospital in Columbus I would not have survived!
Sports are great but doing things that saves lives is even better!

 

[Russell Jaslow]

I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet, but when speculating about other schools being added to the Big Ten (generally, not specifically for football or hockey, etc.), keep in mind the importance of membership in something called the Association of American Universities.

Wikipedia describes it as "an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education."

The saying goes that the Big Ten isn't a sports conference; it is a conference of research universities that also happen to play sports. While it is getting harder to ignore the sports component to it all, it is worth noting that ALL Big Ten schools are (with one exception that I'll note in a moment) members of the AAU. And ALL schools that have joined the Big Ten over the past number of years were AAU members at the time they were accepted into the Big Ten. And that goes for USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington, etc etc.

The one exception is currently Nebraska, Nebraska was an AAU member when they joined the Big Ten, but left the AAU in a dispute regarding the distance - figurative and literal - between the university and their medical school.

You may think I'm being naive or exaggerating, but I'm not. If a school being speculated about isn't a member of AAU, it is VERY unlikely to get into the Big Ten.

I saw an article last week speculating about Clemson and Florida State. Not gonna happen.

You can find a list of current (and former) AAU members here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associ...n_Universities

You're absolutely correct. And those research dollars are way more than the dollars sports are bringing in.

As an example of what you are talking about, that was one of the reasons a few years back the Pac-12 was trying to woo Texas. Because they are a big time research school, and the other Pac-12 schools wanted that connection.