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Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

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The Sicatoka said:
An AR-15 is not an automatic weapon. (It takes advanced Federal permitting to own an automatic weapon in the US.)
Click to expand...

Keep protecting yourself from all of those meth heads you meet. 80% of the patients I work with on the substance abuse units are addicted to meth. None of them have threatened me, and plenty of them come in fucked up on meth. Anecdotal story, sure, but so is yours.
 
psych said:
What message board do you think you’re on? If it were up to me, and basically anyone on this board EXCEPT you, Sic, and maybe a couple others, we’d ban/restrict pretty much everything. I’d make it so hard to own a gun that we’d look like Japan. But then you’d come here and tell us that doing that isn’t politically feasible, because only you know that.
OF COURSE those things (background checks, waiting periods, etc.) don’t stop everything, or even make much of a dent. Better than not doing anything. As for “figuring out the point in men’s lives where they lose their fucking sh-t”, good luck with that. Having worked in the mental health field for almost two decades, might as well be chasing a unicorn. We barely fund mental health as it is.
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See this is why the gun control debate, even here in it's 77th iteration on this board, is still fun. I tell you that background checks aren't going to solve the mass shooting problem, because they clearly won't. You (or others) then accuse me of bad faith arguments, claiming (falsely) that I'm insisting on some sort of total and complete elimination of mass shootings, and then argue the old "something is better than nothing" trope.

I disagree with you. Doing "something" which will have virtually zero impact is not better than doing nothing. The reason for that is that the minute you "accomplish" this worthless "something" that you want to do, you'll all stand around patting yourselves on the back over a job well done in addressing the mass shooting crisis in the country, then move on to some other plan to do "something" about another problem, while in the meantime you've actually accomplished nothing other than creating a misleading impression that you've done something.
 
psych said:
Keep protecting yourself from all of those meth heads you meet. 80% of the patients I work with on the substance abuse units are addicted to meth. None of them have threatened me, and plenty of them come in fucked up on meth. Anecdotal story, sure, but so is yours.
Click to expand...

If we're trading anecdotes, my favorite meth heads I never met. My best friend did. Forty miles NW of Fargo; nearest law enforcement station 20 miles. At his rural farm house. In his bedroom. At 3 o'clock in the morning. They were not invited guests. They'd broken in not realizing anyone was home.
 
The Sicatoka said:
Pick your favorite news source:
https://www.google.com/search?q=meth...4dUDCA4&uact=5

Here's a sample: " ... girl in Cruthersville, Indiana, who'd inadvertently found a neighbor's meth lab and was subsequently beaten to death."
Click to expand...

That's one, in comparison with the hundreds murdered by guns. Is it worth it? BTW, you at least satisfied the expectation of one. Good job.

BTW, the impact on rural America of Meth is well documented. The accidental deaths of people who found a lab is what I'm asking for- that's why the lazy sheriff told you to carry a gun. Also, that "search" is reporting the same book, many times.

Meth is a bad thing, sure. It should be reminded that gun restrictions will keep them from getting guns, too. That should be obvious, but apparently isn't.
 
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The Sicatoka said:
An AR-15 is not an automatic weapon. (It takes advanced Federal permitting to own an automatic weapon in the US.)
Click to expand...

Nice and childish response. Still can't justify an AR15 for hunting, but evades the question by pointing out that I missed the word "semi".

But feel free to actually justify hunting with a semi-auto. I've posted reasons why guns like the AR are unique, and you have not posted reasons why they are needed for hunting reasons.
 
psych said:
... it should be harder to obtain and keep a gun than to vote.
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I had to show ID to purchase a firearm.


And my ID (my ND CC permit) had my NICS number on it from the permitting process.
That (active permit/NICS) should have been good enough, but the vendor called anyway and reverified me with NICS.
 
psych said:
Keep protecting yourself from all of those meth heads you meet. 80% of the patients I work with on the substance abuse units are addicted to meth. None of them have threatened me, and plenty of them come in fucked up on meth. Anecdotal story, sure, but so is yours.
Click to expand...

Are you telling the the lazy Sheriff has not told you to carry a gun? Wow. You are at far more risk based on exposure to real people. But the hysteria around fear sells guns.
 
The Sicatoka said:
I had to show ID to purchase a firearm.


And my ID (my ND CC permit) had my NICS number on it from the permitting process.
That (active permit/NICS) should have been good enough, but the vendor called anyway and reverified me with NICS.
Click to expand...

Is your name registered on the state level? Do you have to make sure that you keep up on that registration?
 
MichVandal said:
Is your name registered on the state level? Do you have to make sure that you keep up on that registration?
Click to expand...

I renewed my ND issued CC Class 1 permit (classroom, on-range) about six months ago for another five year term.

All the information is with ND BCI and they maintain a 24 hour hotline for (national) law enforcement to immediately verify my permit status.

If I change address, or have certain other status changes (e.g. name change, etc), I must inform BCI and if I don't I'll lose my permit and face other charges.

Learn more here: https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/publi...apons-licenses


Having posited that, Mich, I pose a challenge to you:
Go to a local outfitter and purchase a firearm. (I'm not saying you have to complete the purchase, but go to the point of swiping the credit card.) Fill out the forms, wait for the NICS background to clear, live the system.
 
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SJHovey said:
See this is why the gun control debate, even here in it's 77th iteration on this board, is still fun. I tell you that background checks aren't going to solve the mass shooting problem, because they clearly won't. You (or others) then accuse me of bad faith arguments, claiming (falsely) that I'm insisting on some sort of total and complete elimination of mass shootings, and then argue the old "something is better than nothing" trope.

I disagree with you. Doing "something" which will have virtually zero impact is not better than doing nothing. The reason for that is that the minute you "accomplish" this worthless "something" that you want to do, you'll all stand around patting yourselves on the back over a job well done in addressing the mass shooting crisis in the country, then move on to some other plan to do "something" about another problem, while in the meantime you've actually accomplished nothing other than creating a misleading impression that you've done something.
Click to expand...

You realize if I had my way, we’d basically turn into Japan when it comes to guns, right? Taking 95% of guns out of circulation and making it next to impossible to obtain one after that was achieved would solve the unique issue we’re having in this country. I’m well aware that isn’t politically feasible, but it’s not because of people like me. It’s because of people like you. Look in the mirror when it comes to intellectual dishonesty. You’re stopping this problem from being solved in ways that would help, not me. I’m proposing background checks and everything else because YOU go along with it. Pat myself on the back, lol. You’re the problem here. You and Sic. We’re talking political feasibly stuff that does next to nothing because YOU don’t want to ban guns or take them off the street. YOU’RE blocking the solution. NOT me. Again, look in the mirror when you throw that crap around.
As for your proposed solution, it’s trash. It’s garbage. It sucks. I don’t doubt you sincerely believe that if we could just solve white men’s mid-life crises, the gun problem would be fixed, or at least ameliorated. You’re not arguing in bad faith. But, I have to ask, why are white men in other countries like Britain and France not killing people at the rate we kill people, or killing themselves? You think American men are unique in their genetic propensity to kill others, or is it more likely that they have easier access to guns and when they do “snap”, either on themselves or others, there’s the gun? Get out of here. This crap you spewed is worse than your telling us only YOU knew about Biden only passing stuff through budget reconciliation a few months ago.
 
The Sicatoka said:
I had to show ID to purchase a firearm.


And my ID (my ND CC permit) had my NICS number on it from the permitting process.
That (active permit/NICS) should have been good enough, but the vendor called anyway and reverified me with NICS.
Click to expand...

Sounds great! Really, it does. As for your meth story, I’m not sure who got killed? Was it the meth heads, or the homeowner? Did they have guns too? I’m sure they were surprised when they went to steal the TV that the homeowner was home. I’m not saying the homeowner didn’t have the right to “defend his castle”, but I’m not sure your story has the impact you think it does...
 
psych said:
One more thing: suicides make up the vast majority of gun deaths. You know this. I know this. Yes, no doubt some of those people may find another way to kill themselves, but firearms are obviously by FAR the easiest way. There’s a reason we ask/check for firearms during the patient’s safety crisis discharge plan, and then work to secure those firearms with the patient’s guardian before the patient goes home or their next placement. We could cut out all the mass shootings, and we’d still be killing way more people with guns than anywhere else in the world. Does that not signal it’s not necessarily a people problem?
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There should be a collective effort to fight ‘deaths of despair.’ We have way, way, way too many.
 
psych said:
You realize if I had my way, we’d basically turn into Japan when it comes to guns, right? Taking 95% of guns out of circulation and making it next to impossible to obtain one after that was achieved would solve the unique issue we’re having in this country. I’m well aware that isn’t politically feasible, but it’s not because of people like me. It’s because of people like you. Look in the mirror when it comes to intellectual dishonesty. You’re stopping this problem from being solved in ways that would help, not me. I’m proposing background checks and everything else because YOU go along with it. Pat myself on the back, lol. You’re the problem here. You and Sic. We’re talking political feasibly stuff that does next to nothing because YOU don’t want to ban guns or take them off the street. YOU’RE blocking the solution. NOT me. Again, look in the mirror when you throw that crap around.
As for your proposed solution, it’s trash. It’s garbage. It sucks. I don’t doubt you sincerely believe that if we could just solve white men’s mid-life crises, the gun problem would be fixed, or at least ameliorated. You’re not arguing in bad faith. But, I have to ask, why are white men in other countries like Britain and France not killing people at the rate we kill people, or killing themselves? You think American men are unique in their genetic propensity to kill others, or is it more likely that they have easier access to guns and when they do “snap”, either on themselves or others, there’s the gun? Get out of here. This crap you spewed is worse than your telling us only YOU knew about Biden only passing stuff through budget reconciliation a few months ago.
Click to expand...

I have posted multiple times the only way to reduce or eliminate the mass shootings is basically a complete ban on guns. I have also repeatedly posted "knock yourself out." I won't stand in your way or oppose you.

But it isn't going to happen. Me saying that it isn't going to happen is not a statement that I oppose it. It's a statement of fact. It isn't going to happen. The political will to enact such a ban, and to further eliminate the 2nd Amendment in order to do so, simply doesn't exist in sufficient numbers in this country.

You want to blame me for that, go ahead. But all that does is demonstrate your ignorance of the subject.
 
The Sicatoka said:
I renewed my ND issued CC Class 1 permit (classroom, on-range) about six months ago for another five year term.

All the information is with ND BCI and they maintain a 24 hour hotline for (national) law enforcement to immediately verify my permit status.

If I change address, or have certain other status changes (e.g. name change, etc), I must inform BCI and if I don't I'll lose my permit and face other charges.

Learn more here: https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/publi...apons-licenses


Having posited that, Mich, I pose a challenge to you:
Go to a local outfitter and purchase a firearm. (I'm not saying you have to complete the purchase, but go to the point of swiping the credit card.) Fill out the forms, wait for the NICS background to clear, live the system.
Click to expand...

permit or guns? Seems like you should have all of your guns registered, too. Prevent shooter fraud and all. And maybe in ND, the rules are tough enough to prevent mass shootings- even though your lazy sheriff is telling you that you are on your own and they are incapable of enforcing the real law.

And I'll pass on your challenge. Apparently it's so easy to get weapons that they can be used as intended- murder a lot of people at once. If it's easy enough for that, it's too easy.
 
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SJHovey said:
I've never opposed waiting periods or background checks before you purchase a gun. However, as I've written numerous times before on this board, those measures are not going to have any impact on the types of events like that in San Jose. Of the various mass shootings that we've all read about over the last decade or two, how many of them have been committed by convicted felons or people who would have been flagged by a background check? None come to mind that I can think of. In pretty much every instance the shooter has been someone who looks and acts just like you and me. They live in a middle class home, possibly have a family, are a student, hold a job, etc...


The vast majority of these shooters are white and male, and they have found themselves at one of two significant crossroads that all of the rest of us men have (or will have) gone through. That point between maybe the ages of 16 and 25, or in middle age (late 30's to early 50's). Those can be difficult times. They can be times where you experience loss or frustration with your place in the world, with problems or difficulties with the opposite sex, work or career questions, etc...

Some men push through. Some have affairs or buy an unnecessary car. Some go completely over the edge and shoot up their school or their place of employment or whatever.

I don't know the answer, but it certainly lies somewhere in figuring out the psychology of those points in men's lives, identifying those who may be struggling to get through them, and addressing the problem before it gets out of control.
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And yet hundreds of millions of men in these age groups aren't able to easily get guns to murder innocent people. That's why this is only a problem in the US.

If the option to easily buy weapons to murder people is removed, the number of people murdered goes down.
 
Has banning something commonly available before the ban worked in this country?
Asking for the 18th and 21st Amendments.

(Before you say it, 3D printing is to firearms as the home still was/is to alcohol.)


Stiffen the punishments for illegal possession or use, and improper handling and storage, and set stronger permitting requirements.
 
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