Scott_TG
Well-known member
Harvard announces an incoming class of six
https://gocrimson.com/news/2023/6/1...welcome-six-first-years-in-class-of-2027.aspx
https://gocrimson.com/news/2023/6/1...welcome-six-first-years-in-class-of-2027.aspx
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Harvard 2022-23: What's Up?
- Thread starter thirdtime's . . .
- Start date
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
With no coach? Lol
thirdtime's . . .
Active member
My annual request for intel on the recruits. Anyone? Anything? Probably not, other than they've got to be pretty stalwart.
Btw, the latest from the AD's office is that HWH is going with player-coaches this year. They'll be alternating shifts on the bench. Details TBA later.
Well, here's an article with reports on two of the Harvard recruits. The "scouting report" is glowing about Brooke Manning and positive about Maria Pape.
you have to be kidding?
thirdtime's . . .
Active member
you have to be kidding?
BowWowWow, thanks. I'll take what the NZ scouts are selling with Manning and Pape: one "firecracker player" and one who "can be a bit irritating to play against." Love it.
For those of you who might have missed this, here is the text from a recent email sent out by Erin McDermott.
"Dear Harvard Athletics Community,
I am writing to inform you of upcoming changes within the Athletics Department for the 2023-2024 Academic Year. We are committed to strengthening our community and enhancing the experience and growth of our student-athletes. As these initiatives directly impact members of the entire athletics community, I outline them here.
As you know, Jenner & Block recently completed a thorough independent review of the facts and circumstances underlying a series of public reports concerning the safety and well-being of student-athletes and others affiliated with Harvard University’s women’s ice hockey program. In the wake of these allegations and now that the review has concluded, I want to share with you some critical observations.
Our current women’s ice hockey team has not fostered a culture of hazing. However, it is clear that some traditions in recent years were experienced differently by different people and not all were comfortable with those activities or with expressing concerns relating to the program. We now have an opportunity to end team traditions that are harmful to team culture and inconsistent with our community norms.
In addition, there is an opportunity for the Athletics Department to lead and foster a culture that reflects our values of mutual respect, support of one another, transparency in our processes and procedures, and a focus on the safety and dignity of our student-athletes. Our department’s procedures and communications with student-athletes have led to confusion and frustration among members of our community, and there are areas where we must improve. As a result, I have determined to prioritize the following initiatives:
In addition to the new Athletics Department initiatives described above, Harvard Athletics and Harvard College will pilot a leadership academy program to provide enhanced pedagogical opportunities for students who hold leadership roles across the College. Student leaders will learn how to lead in a way that promotes positive cultural norms, is centered in our core values, and helps them to navigate challenging situations and difficult conversations. This program will support our collective focus on updating team traditions to align with our values, and will help us move forward positively as a community. Athletics will work in partnership with the College to develop the programming for the 2023-2024 academic year and further details will be announced in the fall.
I am proud to stand among you in this incredible community, and I look forward to engaging in this work and implementing these positive changes. I am appreciative of our great partners on and off campus, who will support us and help us achieve these aims.
One Crimson!
Erin"
Take note of the third paragraph where she states there was no culture of hazing. Unbelievable. It's as if nothing happened and they are simply trying to sweep it all under the rug. One Crimson indeed.
"Dear Harvard Athletics Community,
I am writing to inform you of upcoming changes within the Athletics Department for the 2023-2024 Academic Year. We are committed to strengthening our community and enhancing the experience and growth of our student-athletes. As these initiatives directly impact members of the entire athletics community, I outline them here.
As you know, Jenner & Block recently completed a thorough independent review of the facts and circumstances underlying a series of public reports concerning the safety and well-being of student-athletes and others affiliated with Harvard University’s women’s ice hockey program. In the wake of these allegations and now that the review has concluded, I want to share with you some critical observations.
Our current women’s ice hockey team has not fostered a culture of hazing. However, it is clear that some traditions in recent years were experienced differently by different people and not all were comfortable with those activities or with expressing concerns relating to the program. We now have an opportunity to end team traditions that are harmful to team culture and inconsistent with our community norms.
In addition, there is an opportunity for the Athletics Department to lead and foster a culture that reflects our values of mutual respect, support of one another, transparency in our processes and procedures, and a focus on the safety and dignity of our student-athletes. Our department’s procedures and communications with student-athletes have led to confusion and frustration among members of our community, and there are areas where we must improve. As a result, I have determined to prioritize the following initiatives:
- The Athletics Department, with support from the College, will instruct student-athletes and all administrative and coaching staff annually on reporting conduct that is inconsistent with Harvard’s community standards. This will include whom to speak about concerns without fear of retribution or reprisal, and how concerns are adjudicated and resolved, both within Harvard Athletics and in the College. This information will be included in all online Athletics resources for the 2023-2024 academic year, and it will align with policies and procedures described in the Harvard College Student Handbook.
- The Athletics Department will provide clear instructions to student-athletes for accessing mental wellness support resources and other faculty resources to help them in balancing their challenging academic schedules and their commitments to athletics. Supporting our student-athlete's mental wellness is a priority for our department.
In addition to the new Athletics Department initiatives described above, Harvard Athletics and Harvard College will pilot a leadership academy program to provide enhanced pedagogical opportunities for students who hold leadership roles across the College. Student leaders will learn how to lead in a way that promotes positive cultural norms, is centered in our core values, and helps them to navigate challenging situations and difficult conversations. This program will support our collective focus on updating team traditions to align with our values, and will help us move forward positively as a community. Athletics will work in partnership with the College to develop the programming for the 2023-2024 academic year and further details will be announced in the fall.
I am proud to stand among you in this incredible community, and I look forward to engaging in this work and implementing these positive changes. I am appreciative of our great partners on and off campus, who will support us and help us achieve these aims.
One Crimson!
Erin"
Take note of the third paragraph where she states there was no culture of hazing. Unbelievable. It's as if nothing happened and they are simply trying to sweep it all under the rug. One Crimson indeed.
Vintagejersey
New member
A ton of words without any real substance
pedagogical - adjective. : of, relating to, or befitting a teacher or education
The words I never knew existed I find out on USCHO. I wonder if that one was used in any of the National Spelling Bee Contests. Now students, who can come up with a sentence using this word as it relates to Hockey.
"The pedagogical Katey Stone and her methods proved to be her downfall."
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robertearle
Well-known member
My senior year in high school (a small Catholic school, 500-600 total students), we essentially didn't have a cross country coach (greatly different in a number of ways, to be sure). The former basketball/CC coach had taken a job as the basketball coach at a local college, and they just never managed to find a replacement for CC. There was one of the retired Brothers who went to the meets to sign whatever paperwork there was, but he didn't even try to do anything else in terms of 'coaching'; we 'coached' ourselves, set up workout schedules and mileage 'loads' etc, decided who would race varsity vs JV in a given meet, etc. And we did OK. It's kind of amazing to think about now, but at the time, we just rolled with the punches, didn't really complain.
Watson Rink
Registered User
robertearle wrote:
"My senior year in high school (a small Catholic school, 500-600 total students), we essentially didn't have a cross country coach (greatly different in a number of ways, to be sure). The former basketball/CC coach had taken a job as the basketball coach at a local college, and they just never managed to find a replacement for CC. There was one of the retired Brothers who went to the meets to sign whatever paperwork there was, but he didn't even try to do anything else in terms of 'coaching'; we 'coached' ourselves, set up workout schedules and mileage 'loads' etc, decided who would race varsity vs JV in a given meet, etc. And we did OK. It's kind of amazing to think about now, but at the time, we just rolled with the punches, didn't really complain."
What a powerful subject that would make for a college application essay!
"My senior year in high school (a small Catholic school, 500-600 total students), we essentially didn't have a cross country coach (greatly different in a number of ways, to be sure). The former basketball/CC coach had taken a job as the basketball coach at a local college, and they just never managed to find a replacement for CC. There was one of the retired Brothers who went to the meets to sign whatever paperwork there was, but he didn't even try to do anything else in terms of 'coaching'; we 'coached' ourselves, set up workout schedules and mileage 'loads' etc, decided who would race varsity vs JV in a given meet, etc. And we did OK. It's kind of amazing to think about now, but at the time, we just rolled with the punches, didn't really complain."
What a powerful subject that would make for a college application essay!
Watson Rink
Registered User
Do I recall that Teddy Donato was hired by the Bruins in his 13th season to be a sort of player/assistant coach in Providence, only to prove to be too valuable on the varsity PP and PK to be sent down?
thirdtime's . . .
Active member
I actually find this statement to be a pretty strong, non-rug sweeping condemnation of Stone’s practices, the AD’s ineptness notwithstanding. McDermott’s primary blunder here is in even mentioning the legally toxic word "hazing," because it just calls to mind the non-distinction between it and the “team traditions that are harmful to team culture and inconsistent with our community norms.” I also wouldn’t dismiss the rest as pedagogical boilerplate because of who it’s coming from. On its face it suggests a reexamination of athletic culture at Harvard and procedures to forestall any recurrence of the failures demonstrated by HWH. Even Harvard cannot afford to fall down again in the age of university NIL (Interesting to note McD’s own mea culpa: “We, I, must do more to support . . .” How could she not slap her own wrist, though it should have been harder and with a bit more candor. I still hope she’s posted her CV on Indeed.)
Stone’s engineered departure and now this look at all we’re going to get of Jenner & Block’s work means that the way has been cleared for the announcement of a new head coach. And no, if it is a woman, I don’t think she’ll be an undergraduate!
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I don’t understand the pedagogy paragraph. It seemed irrelevant to the overall topic of Jenner’s findings. Who cares about a new leadership program they are introducing for the students? It made me wonder if this was their way of saying they’d have a player coach? But I still question that they would do that, I think it could be argued as retaliation, not to mention just not putting your team in a position to succeed.
I can appreciate that Harvard is small and insular…. I want to say Julie Chu would be a great hire but perhaps insiders would feel differently. Whether people like it or not there will be some meeting in the middle here. Stone has retired, but they are not burning things to the ground (unless they go with a player coach, which is absurd and insulting to the other 41 ish div 1 coaches in the country imo).
I can appreciate that Harvard is small and insular…. I want to say Julie Chu would be a great hire but perhaps insiders would feel differently. Whether people like it or not there will be some meeting in the middle here. Stone has retired, but they are not burning things to the ground (unless they go with a player coach, which is absurd and insulting to the other 41 ish div 1 coaches in the country imo).
Take note of the third paragraph where she states there was no culture of hazing. Unbelievable. It's as if nothing happened and they are simply trying to sweep it all under the rug. One Crimson indeed.
Non-rhetorical question. What is hazing or a "culture of hazing"? I know there are definitions and they generally relate to the obvious examples, like the old Supreme Court statement on pornography - you know it when you see it. Typically, in a fraternity/sorority context its condition of membership. But there are lesser situations where there is an activity that some members may find fun and others are uncomfortable and it's not a prerequisite to being on the team. Is that hazing? That could literally be any activity depending on the viewpoint of the participant as we see from the controversy in the NHL around pre-game jerseys. One person perceives their action as a positive while another sees it as an uncomfortable situation.
Most "hazing" is peer conducted - other players force players to do stuff. At parties or other locations when coaches are not around. Is that the fault of the coach? Is the definition subjective? Is it only hazing if the uncomfortable person is forced to do the activity and would it only be hazing if the uncomfortable person voices their discomfort? Is it incumbent on the person to voice their displeasure or opt out? Otherwise, how would others know that the person was not comfortable? Are others supposed to be mind readers? What if the person goes along - perhaps because of feeling peer pressure but did not object even though they really did not want to do it? How does a coach, assuming the coach learns of the activity, determine that something is hazing if some want to do the activity? Does the objection of 1 person make the whole activity hazing? These are difficult questions.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I spoke directly with two recent grads and they had opposition positions. One said it was fun traditions. The other said it was very uncomfortable and hazing. That seems to me what this report found.
This is certainly separate from any direct actions that Stone may have done. That is a separate story. However, I think the hazing issue is more nuanced and not as black and white as some on this thread do but there is certainly a need for Harvard to make some changes and have further transparency.
Non-rhetorical question. What is hazing or a "culture of hazing"? I know there are definitions and they generally relate to the obvious examples, like the old Supreme Court statement on pornography - you know it when you see it. Typically, in a fraternity/sorority context its condition of membership. But there are lesser situations where there is an activity that some members may find fun and others are uncomfortable and it's not a prerequisite to being on the team. Is that hazing? That could literally be any activity depending on the viewpoint of the participant as we see from the controversy in the NHL around pre-game jerseys. One person perceives their action as a positive while another sees it as an uncomfortable situation.
Most "hazing" is peer conducted - other players force players to do stuff. At parties or other locations when coaches are not around. Is that the fault of the coach? Is the definition subjective? Is it only hazing if the uncomfortable person is forced to do the activity and would it only be hazing if the uncomfortable person voices their discomfort? Is it incumbent on the person to voice their displeasure or opt out? Otherwise, how would others know that the person was not comfortable? Are others supposed to be mind readers? What if the person goes along - perhaps because of feeling peer pressure but did not object even though they really did not want to do it? How does a coach, assuming the coach learns of the activity, determine that something is hazing if some want to do the activity? Does the objection of 1 person make the whole activity hazing? These are difficult questions.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I spoke directly with two recent grads and they had opposition positions. One said it was fun traditions. The other said it was very uncomfortable and hazing. That seems to me what this report found.
This is certainly separate from any direct actions that Stone may have done. That is a separate story. However, I think the hazing issue is more nuanced and not as black and white as some on this thread do but there is certainly a need for Harvard to make some changes and have further transparency.
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I think hazing is illegal or 'nasty' acts that everyone has to do or go through in order to join the group with the intention of bonding the group together.
Not only is it occasionally (probably rarely) dangerous, but more often I think it sets bad precedents for the group and can also result in splitting the group instead of bonding the whole group.
"Our current women’s ice hockey team has not fostered a culture of hazing."
Thirdtime, what part of this statement don't you get? McDermott is saying that the team has not fostered a culture of hazing when clearly they have been participating in hazing for many years. Or are you buying the fact that using the word 'current' absolves prior teams of any wrongdoing?
Thirdtime, what part of this statement don't you get? McDermott is saying that the team has not fostered a culture of hazing when clearly they have been participating in hazing for many years. Or are you buying the fact that using the word 'current' absolves prior teams of any wrongdoing?
thirdtime's . . .
Active member
"Hazing" is legally loaded. "[Ending] traditions that are harmful to team culture and inconsistent with our community norms" gets the job done. It's as simple as that.
ShootDePuckNo
New member
Barstool out with an opinion......
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog...ms.-but-says-not-to-worry-there-was-no-hazing.
This isn't going away. Every time Harvard opens their mouth, they dig a deeper hole.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog...ms.-but-says-not-to-worry-there-was-no-hazing.
This isn't going away. Every time Harvard opens their mouth, they dig a deeper hole.