I'm surprised there isn't a big push to bring in Ayers as a potential coach. I'm hopeful BC can hold onto him as an assistant when they make a hire which looks like it'll be Cavanaugh from UConn. That said, they've never coached together before and I could see Ayers being upset he was passed over for the job. If I was a UNH fan, I'd be clamoring for him though, he's a monster recruiter
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UNH Men's Hockey 2022 Off Season Thread- Goodbye Lake Whitt!
- Thread starter HockeyRef
- Start date
NCAA watcher
Registered User
OK, I had assumed Brown would get the BC gig, but if its going to Luce Canon, I'd go after Brown. (Of course, U.Conn and BU would probably try for him for their openings, and as said, UNH has no AD to make the decision until June, which is too late)
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
No offense to Mike Ayers but am thinking at least the UNH fans on this board are thinking that its time to move past a UNH alum etc? Personally I'd be ok with that choice and really shouldn't speak for others that's just my feeling about it. I kind of wonder outloud if he (Ayers) was in the mix that last time around as a potential candidate as the 3 year plan was being formulated just FWIW dept.
How interesting this is all turning out to be; 2 big name HE schools seeking a coach, new AD coming into UNH...wild times!
You also have Pearson’s contract expiring April 30 with no extension yet and an ongoing investigation which should have report out about same time. Michigan is one program who could pay anyone handsomely and payoff any buyout so it could be a chain reaction if they do move.
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Good point. At some point someone (UConn) may come for Souza?
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Just curious how you know this info about his contract? I'm sure it's public knowledge etc but none of us here seem to have any idea about where our coach currently stands....I mean, one can speculate etc...?
if you hear something google to see if the smoke is possibly a fire
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...gainst-no-3-ranked-hockey-program/9302252002/
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Dearest Lord God in Heaven,
Please make this true. I know I've been an imperfect being here on Earth, and can focus too often on silly and trite things instead of following Your word and Your light as an example to others of Your divine providence. I've tried my best to be a better person in recent years, following Your path, and have even managed to be sincerely complimentary to those who've previously been enemies (see, more trite verbiage, oops sorry) regarding the man who has just now stepped down from The Heights (oops, I mean BC Hockey - only You are the true Heights of the Heights). Being a mere mortal, however, I am still prone to sin, and to wishing that other sinners who sin worse than me (no names, but I think You know of whom I speak) get their just desserts. You know best of all that Luce Canaan and BC Hockey deserve each other, so finally Brother Luce can show the rest of the world he wasn't just spouting ragtime when he would tell naive young hockey prospects how he was the real brains behind the outfit at BC Hockey, and how the recent retiree hadn't won the whole enchilada since he left for Storrs.
Yes, Lord, I am fully aware our near octogenarian retiring brother also won the whole enchilada at Bowling Green before that, but just to make one final base request before I "up my game" and rise above petty pettiness, please make this true. Yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory.
Merci beacoup, Mon Dieu.
(signed) Chuck Murray
Self-appointed WIS President for Life (on Earth anyway, Your Lordship)
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
P.S. to Mon Dieu - this would be an added bonus, if you can find it in Your heart to make it happen.
I do not wish to be gluttonous, but if this falls within Your plan, don't let me stop You.
(signed) Chuck Murray
Self-appointed WIS President-for-Life (behind You of course)
isn’t it UNH’s modus operandi that if your coach leverages a large state school head coaching job you give them a lifetime contract with a huge raise
HockeyRef
Well-known member
....but would we still lose to UConn most of the time...lol Somehow, I can picture your prayers being said in this fashion....
Is he? Do you have any evidence of this beyond BC landing top talent and liking Mike Ayers? BC was a recruiting wagon long before Ayers was on staff, continued to be during his early years as second assistant and will be long after he leaves. If anything they've slipped from a results perspective since he's taken a larger role on the staff. Perhaps more of the recruiting credit goes to the constant (Jerry York)...
First, its high time we move past this antiquated notion that HC's aren't - or don't need to be - their program's best recruiter (Earth to Umile!). Its not the 1970's where assistants take two month road trips through western Canada to unearth talent. You don't think Jerry York can make it to an NTDP/USHL camp or showcase? Even if he couldn't, every game at every recruitable level is available via online stream and identifying talent takes moments. In home visits - especially during an era of early recruiting - may still happen on occasion, but they're not an integral or regular part of recruiting. You don't think York can pick up a phone? Schedule a zoom call? Meet with a prospect on an unofficial visit? The actually act selling recruits can happen in any number of ways - and the message, regardless of who's delivering it can be set, managed and constructed by anyone within the organization (or the organization itself).
This is the same story we heard about Mike Souza - including posters in this thread insisting he deserve credit as a top recruiter because he was a personable guy and UConn had talent. Even when quotes from players themselves listed Cavanaugh as the decisive recruiter we were told we were being negative for not giving the credit to Souza. Being a nice guy and being on staff doesn't make you an impactful recruiter.
In an MSU thread I followed (not on USCHO), someone made a great point about their supposed pursuit of Adam Nightingale (Noted great guy, assumed great recruiter because of likeability alone). The point was simple: who else would hire him and would he be a realistic MSU candidate if he had graduated from any other school. The answer is clearly no. Just as the reality around Souza was clear then - and more clear now; He would not have made even preliminary UNH HC discussions had he not been an alum and liked by Umile/Admin/Fans. The results have proven that and speak for themselves...
Ayers certainly has more experience and a better track record - and has one thing Souza has never had, success and exposure with a winning culture/program - but would he be a name in consideration at UNH if he wasn't a former All-American in Durham? Doubtful. Where else is he a legitimate candidate? Certainly not at BC. Their fan base would be extremely disappointed if he was hired to replace York, and many seem as if they'd be happy to see him move on from his assistant job, to be quite honest.
The recruiting hype and media coverage that surrounded guys like Jerry Keefe and Ben Barr was significant and included outside sources, peer evaluations and concrete examples of landing players. Has any of that existed around Ayers? Or is this simply a discussion based on that fact that we like him, so recruits clearly would (furthermore, in what world does liking a recruiter necessarily indicate a commitment. I'd bet my life savings that most of the kids who have said no to Souza like him just fine)...
When the UNH jobs opens, I have no issue for Ayers to be considered - but there is no way he should be clamored for and he's certainly not a favorite. He'd have A LOT to prove in an interview and he'd have to win the job. If an AD is not asking significant questions about his role in recruiting to BC and/or how he would be able to recruit disconnected from the BC recruiting machine they're involved in wishful thinking and abdicating responsibility.
Everywhere he went, HC's and players gave Barr major recruiting kudos - media ran with these stories based on first hand accounts. He did it at multiple schools for multiple HC's. None of that ever existed for Souza, despite many trying insinuate it had. If I'm wrong, please point me in the direction where this exists for Ayers? No anecdotes. Proven examples.
If a UNH alum is the fit, fantastic - but it's an entirely irrelevant line on the resume and often a lazy way to float potential connections and candidates. Ask yourself why you'd clamor for Ayers at UNH, but not as York's replacement or as a candidate for the BC job. And then ask yourself why that might be...
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
Here's an article in the Union Leader (was able to read without a paywall) about the rink shrink thing. Interesting actual quotes about how 'high profile defensemen commits didn't want to come to UNH because of the rink size". Anyway, if it's really going to help with recruiting, I guess that will remain to be seen and I hope it does pan out for everyone's sake.
EDIT: I see a pay wall shows up with this link, but here's the verbiage about commits (not saying that's NOT true and maybe there were players who didn't want to play for UNH because of the size of the ice)
Having a closer-to-NHL-size rink will benefit UNH in recruiting and better its chances to host an NCAA regional if the NCAA eventually moves back to using college sites for that round of the tournament, Scarano said.
The big sheet was a deterrent to some high-profile defensemen UNH tried to recruit over the years, Scarano said.
Scarano said the smaller width should also make for a better game, especially on the women’s side. (HR's comment: the size of the ice was not a deterrent when we hosted the women's Frozen Four a few seasons back?? And, women can't skate that ice sheet?)
EDIT: I see a pay wall shows up with this link, but here's the verbiage about commits (not saying that's NOT true and maybe there were players who didn't want to play for UNH because of the size of the ice)
Having a closer-to-NHL-size rink will benefit UNH in recruiting and better its chances to host an NCAA regional if the NCAA eventually moves back to using college sites for that round of the tournament, Scarano said.
The big sheet was a deterrent to some high-profile defensemen UNH tried to recruit over the years, Scarano said.
Scarano said the smaller width should also make for a better game, especially on the women’s side. (HR's comment: the size of the ice was not a deterrent when we hosted the women's Frozen Four a few seasons back?? And, women can't skate that ice sheet?)
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I mean absolutely no offense to you Ref (just personal frustration with UNH's continued accountability free messaging), but I don't find that an interesting quote at all - it would be interesting if it was quoted and attributed to the actual defenseman. It would be interesting if we knew the entire story of that defenseman's recruiting and the entirety of how/why they made their decision. It might be interesting if we knew where that defenseman ended up and why. It would be interesting if there weren't hundreds of other defensemen in every recruiting class.
No, that's a generic, anecdotal, excuse driven justification for shrinking the rink and nothing more. Would the rink size have mattered to that defenseman if UNH had a different HC? Was winning?
Kids don't make their decisions based on one factor alone - ever - with the possible exception of money. So pretending the decision was based solely on rink size is nothing a way to pat yourself on the back, rationalize the result, duck accountability and self-evaluation, and give yourself a pass for losing a prospect because it was all out of your hands...
EDIT - Im much more on board with the skepticism in your edits!
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NCAA watcher
Registered User
I'm sorry, I must have missed the battle for credit to the "talent" at U.Conn recruited by Souza/Cavanaugh.
U.CONN 2013-2015
| 8/7/2013 | Will Golonka | 13-0-0-0 |
| 9/4/2013 | Miles Gendron | 126-10-2333 |
| 9/29/2013 | Jeff Wight | 62-6-7-13 |
| 10/11/2013 | Ben Freeman | 135-25-52-77 |
| 10/15/2013 | Liam Murphy | DNP |
| 10/22/2013 | Corey Ronan | 133-19-24-43 |
| 11/18/2013 | Kasperi Ojantakanen | 127-13-32-45 |
| 1/29/2014 | Will Garin | DNP |
| 1/30/2014 | Spencer Naas | 143-49-28-77 |
| 2/9/2014 | Johnny Austin | 127-8-36-44 |
| 2/26/2014 | Marco Richter | 21-1-0-1 |
| 3/26/2014 | Tyson McLellan | DNP |
| 4/29/2014 | David Drake | 124-4-21-25 |
| 7/27/2014 | Tage Thompson | 70-33-31-64 |
| 11/27/2014 | Connor Mayer | DNP |
| 2/3/2015 | Tanner Creel | 21 Games |
| 2/9/2015 | Mike Young | DNP |
| 3/23/2015 | Adam Karashik | 119-5-19-24 |
| 4/6/2015 | Evan Wisocky | 48-0-15-15 |
| 4/22/2015 | Max Kalter | 135-19-41-60 |
The greatest trick the devil played was convincing Umile he could recruit.
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You must have - because there was quite a commotion about how it was Souza who led the charge for top UConn kids, how the disagreeable were uninformed and unnecessarily negative, and how it was Souza alone who opened up the UConn to Minnesota pipeline (despite said Minnesota recruit directly contributing his attendance to the head coach in print media). I don't remember the recruit or I'd search for article...
I argued at the time that the talent wasn't even any good (the point you make now) and how the recruits themselves indicated Cavanaugh was leading the process - but UNH posters in UNH threads ABSOLUTELY tried to make the case that UConn was landing significant talent - and that it was primarily due to Souza...
I don't disagree with your point - at all - but that battle WAS waged.
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
I mean absolutely no offense to you Ref (just personal frustration with UNH's continued accountability free messaging), but I don't find that an interesting quote at all - it would be interesting if it was quoted and attributed to the actual defenseman. It would be interesting if we knew the entire story of that defenseman's recruiting and the entirety of how/why they made their decision. It might be interesting if we knew where that defenseman ended up and why. It would be interesting if there weren't hundreds of other defensemen in every recruiting class.
No, that's a generic, anecdotal, excuse driven justification for shrinking the rink and nothing more. Would the rink size have mattered to that defenseman if UNH had a different HC? Was winning?
Kids don't make their decisions based on one factor alone - ever - with the possible exception of money. So pretending the decision was based solely on rink size is nothing a way to pat yourself on the back, rationalize the result, duck accountability and self-evaluation, and give yourself a pass for losing a prospect because it was all out of your hands...
EDIT - Im much more on board with the skepticism in your edits!
Hey Dan no offense taken; I am being skeptical about the quotes being just straight up facts as they just throw that out, that's the 'interesting' part of it and I should have qualified that! Thing is, if players only used ice size as THE determining factor or, at best, a top 3 determining factor, who would skate for the successful programs who DO use the Olympic ice sheet...We've had these convos before, but it's just "interesting" it still gets trotted out as a BIG reason UNH isn't hanging a banner... And since I always qualify what I say, sure, there's prob kids who didn't skate for UNH because of that reason (not the banner lol). Somehow, I doubt we'd ever find out or would it be known that a player didn't skate (a high profile one, esp) because of that. Shucks, these days we don't even get decent media coverage or pressers like we used to ha! Seems to me if you can't stand the heat don't go in the kitchen...
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Actually, I can show you a quick video of me practicing my prayers this morning before posting ...
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Fair point. Although my understanding of "leverage" involves fomenting strife between two or more parties over an object or service that would be a highly desirous target of acquisition for all parties, so I'm not sure if MS7's modest string of (mostly) Top Ten finishes in HEA would suffice? At least Captain Turtleneck could wave a winning record and a decade's worth of his program's ascent to what were by then two trips to the FF as the bait; whereas the current leveragor (sp?) would likely finish a distant second in a "Which mediocrity should we hire?" contest with the immortal Paul Pooley.
Not a good start. But apparently he is still tight with Umile, so maybe MS7 can develop the supersonic speedy squeaky voice stylings of his mentor, and maybe the rubes up here will start to take him seriously - especially with the local paisan detector leaving soon for Upstate New York??
That's what I would do, but no one's asking me, so I'll keep praying for MS7's safe passage to Storrs.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Dan, I agree with 99.9% of what you've posted today. I don't remember any large-scale commotion or battles over "credit" due to MS7 over Luce for what was then (arguably still is?) a mediocre UConn hockey program, though. But I do remember you were on the winning side of the discussion (not sure who your opposition was?). Maybe it was only a "skirmish"?? ;-)