Yost Arena no more?

[Hockeybuckeye]

While not a Michigan Hockey fan, I don't have a problem renaming an almost 100 year building, especially one that has been re-purposed. They do it all the time in cities with streets and other things. Time marches on and items named after people should be allowed to be changed. There is no need to drag said person's name through the mud and, pardon the pun, turn them into a political football. Step up and say something PC while saying how great Yost was, and move forward. Let the alumni, donors, and community select a new name and be done with it.

No person is perfect and no person should be treated, dead or alive, as a demigod. There is nothing wrong with wanting to rename something.

Call me a traditionalist but campus buildings and facilities at every university used to be named for faculty and athletes who brought prestige and recognition to the school through their success and efforts.
In todays world naming rights are bought by whoever waves the biggest wad of cash under their noses. We've talked about changing attitudes over time, this one went in the wrong direction in my opinion. Do the Michigan fans want something like say Varsity Ford Arena? Trust me, you don't want to sink down to Ohio State's level with our tacky named Value City Arena!

 

[MichVandal]

Call me a traditionalist but campus buildings and facilities at every university used to be named for faculty and athletes who brought prestige and recognition to the school through their success and efforts.
In todays world naming rights are bought by whoever waves the biggest wad of cash under their noses. We've talked about changing attitudes over time, this one went in the wrong direction in my opinion. Do the Michigan fans want something like say Varsity Ford Arena? Trust me, you don't want to sink down to Ohio State's level with our tacky named Value City Arena!

So you didn't notice that there's an entire business school named after a donor? Or that Harbaugh's official title also includes a donor?

There have been recent "honorable" things, like naming the School of Public Policy after Gerald Ford. But dollars = names.

None the less, what's the real harm of renaming a building when people realize that the person it's named for isn't that great? I'm not sure why that is so horrible.

 

[Maznblu]

This is ridiculous. The stupid "woke" generation makes the classic mistake of applying today's values to a different era in time. It's not a fair comparison. Compare what he did to the values of the time period he lived in. Period. Please let them come to their senses and not rename one of the most iconic buildings on campus. Yost Ice Arena forever!

 

[MichVandal]

This is ridiculous. The stupid "woke" generation makes the classic mistake of applying today's values to a different era in time. It's not a fair comparison. Compare what he did to the values of the time period he lived in. Period. Please let them come to their senses and not rename one of the most iconic buildings on campus. Yost Ice Arena forever!

You can express those opinions to the athletic department.

BTW, a side comment- using "woke" as some kind of indications says that we've been asleep all of this time. And waking up and understanding is more good than bad- if I wake up this morning and realize how to solve a problem, that's a good thing.

If you don't like how people look back on people who are being honored in some way and realizing that the bad is worse than the good- find a different adjective to insult it. Unless you think sleeping and ignoring is perfectly ok as we travel through life.

FWIW, I personally think that the "compare to the era" is pretty weak. All it really does is pretend that it was ok at the time to be a racist. It's never been ok. Being "accepted" does not make it ok. Having laws that made it ok also does not make it acceptable. Back in the same era, Hitler's views were considered OK, too- but I doubt you would object to all references of him being taken down.

I think it is fair to compare the good vs. the bad and see if the good side is enough to outweigh the bad. But to brush the blatant racism under the carpet is just lazy to me. You should be able to do better than that. If that's your only argument, I would totally vote against that.

 

[Lost_Husky]

This is ridiculous. The stupid "woke" generation makes the classic mistake of applying today's values to a different era in time. It's not a fair comparison. Compare what he did to the values of the time period he lived in. Period. Please let them come to their senses and not rename one of the most iconic buildings on campus. Yost Ice Arena forever!

What is your definition of the "woke" generation? Your implication that it is a "classic" mistake invalidates your generational argument as classic implies that "mistake" has been made multiple times by many different generations.

I am all for preserving history, but having the repurposed building that houses hockey named after a football coach is unique. U of M just had a legendary hockey coach retire who has a resume and history with U of M hockey that is fitting of his name on the build. Talk about a fitting lifetime achievement award. One would assume if you wanted to honor history on would name the place where you play hockey after someone who meant something to U of M hockey.

 

[Split-N]

...Hitler's views were considered OK, too...

Nothing could be further from the truth. The western world was convulsed by the rise of Hitler and the only reason he came to power was that the European democracies, led by Britain and France (google Neville Chamberlain), chose to sit on its hands rather than step in militarily while it still could. Start by looking at the list of nations that formed the World War II Allies. It's a lot longer than the US, UK, and France. Even Brazil was an ally. You also apparently are ignorant of the fact that tens of thousands of non-Jewish Germans were executed by the SS for treason against the Hitler regime.

This is absolutely the dumbest, most ignorant, and wholly absurd comment I've ever had the misfortune or reading on these boards.

 

[MichVandal]

Nothing could be further from the truth. The western world was convulsed by the rise of Hitler and the only reason he came to power was that the European democracies, led by Britain and France (google Neville Chamberlain), chose to sit on its hands rather than step in militarily while it still could. Start by looking at the list of nations that formed the World War II Allies. It's a lot longer than the US, UK, and France. Even Brazil was an ally. You also apparently are ignorant of the fact that tens of thousands of non-Jewish Germans were executed by the SS for treason against the Hitler regime.

This is absolutely the dumbest most ignorant comment I've ever had the misfortune or reading on these boards.

Uh, no, not fully. There was a lot of support for Hitler in the US, then, too. Chamberlain tried to subdue Hitler, not fight him- had it not been for the invasion of Poland- which had treaty agreements with Britain and France, the war would have not gotten going, and the submission of Jews in Germany would have gone overlooked. You forget Mosley in the UK (along with the anti-war behind Chamberlain), the Bund here in the US, etc. Had it not been for the internal support within the Allies for Hitler, there would have been more done to prevent it before it got going.

But thanks for missing the point- racism wasn't ok back then anymore than it's ok now. To anyone. So just pretending that it's ok because it was part of the era is a very, very weak argument.

BTW, the small amount of non-Jews (relatively) that were murdered in by the SS were fighting Hitler- either by trying to save Jews or just end Hitler's power. So I can't see how that even matters in the face of the millions of Jews murdered.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Based on some of the responses here it's obvious to me that some of you don't see the problem because you subscribe to the mindset that is the problem. You say racism but who's definition? I see all across the country these days people screaming racism but people across the board have different interpretations of it and some are so extreme it make all guilty of it which is not the case. If you want to pick out people of the past and feel the need to dissect them looking for anything that doesn't match YOUR ideals then you're an idiot. To want to cleanse the past is a fools errand and serves no meaningful purpose. These are the retards who get their kicks in tearing down a statue. Hitler was mentioned and to me those who want to pursue and attack people like Yost are like Hitler in removing anyone from society who did not meet his exacting standards.
U of M has for some time now pushed an agenda of "political correctness" that is NOT in the best interests of the University and has resulted in multiple lawsuits against them which the University has all lost but still don't get the message it seems! It's clear to me the wrong people are in charge there.

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Based on some of the responses here it's obvious to me that some of you don't see the problem because you subscribe to the mindset that is the problem. You say racism but who's definition? I see all across the country these days people screaming racism but people across the board have different interpretations of it and some are so extreme it make all guilty of it which is not the case. If you want to pick out people of the past and feel the need to dissect them looking for anything that doesn't match YOUR ideals then you're an idiot. To want to cleanse the past is a fools errand and serves no meaningful purpose. These are the retards who get their kicks in tearing down a statue. Hitler was mentioned and to me those who want to pursue and attack people like Yost are like Hitler in removing anyone from society who did not meet his exacting standards.
U of M has for some time now pushed an agenda of "political correctness" that is NOT in the best interests of the University and has resulted in multiple lawsuits against them which the University has all lost but still don't get the message it seems! It's clear to me the wrong people are in charge there.

What if I truly don't give a turd what the University of Michigan names their hockey rink? Where do I fall on the continuum?

 

[MichVandal]

Based on some of the responses here it's obvious to me that some of you don't see the problem because you subscribe to the mindset that is the problem. You say racism but who's definition? I see all across the country these days people screaming racism but people across the board have different interpretations of it and some are so extreme it make all guilty of it which is not the case. If you want to pick out people of the past and feel the need to dissect them looking for anything that doesn't match YOUR ideals then you're an idiot. To want to cleanse the past is a fools errand and serves no meaningful purpose. These are the retards who get their kicks in tearing down a statue. Hitler was mentioned and to me those who want to pursue and attack people like Yost are like Hitler in removing anyone from society who did not meet his exacting standards.
U of M has for some time now pushed an agenda of "political correctness" that is NOT in the best interests of the University and has resulted in multiple lawsuits against them which the University has all lost but still don't get the message it seems! It's clear to me the wrong people are in charge there.

Ok, you are very welcome to stay in Ohio.

The fact that you project YOUR view if racism into people who are the receiving end of it, and have NO concept of how it makes them feel and react, and contribute to society is the real problem here. You can bother to wake up and see the effects of chronic racism- it's in Columbus, too.

People are not having demonstrations just because- they are having them for reasons. Statues are being torn down because of the reasons they were put up in the first place, and the tiny fact that they also represent losers.

This isn't "political correctness" it's about respecting everyone, regardless if who they are. And seeing where that isn't happening, or when it was the exact opposite of respecting other people- and then dealing with it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Nothing could be further from the truth. The western world was convulsed by the rise of Hitler and the only reason he came to power was that the European democracies, led by Britain and France (google Neville Chamberlain), chose to sit on its hands rather than step in militarily while it still could. Start by looking at the list of nations that formed the World War II Allies. It's a lot longer than the US, UK, and France. Even Brazil was an ally. You also apparently are ignorant of the fact that tens of thousands of non-Jewish Germans were executed by the SS for treason against the Hitler regime.

This is absolutely the dumbest, most ignorant, and wholly absurd comment I've ever had the misfortune or reading on these boards.

Huh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Ok, you are very welcome to stay in Ohio.

The fact that you project YOUR view if racism into people who are the receiving end of it, and have NO concept of how it makes them feel and react, and contribute to society is the real problem here. You can bother to wake up and see the effects of chronic racism- it's in Columbus, too.

People are not having demonstrations just because- they are having them for reasons. Statues are being torn down because of the reasons they were put up in the first place, and the tiny fact that they also represent losers.

This isn't "political correctness" it's about respecting everyone, regardless if who they are. And seeing where that isn't happening, or when it was the exact opposite of respecting other people- and then dealing with it.

Thank you for proving my point so perfectly! How long have you been indoctrinated into the New World Order?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Michigan could have casually renamed the whole facility "Berenson Ice Arena" and focused on a positive, Red, thus letting Yost disappear with nary a peep. --> "Why? It's for RED!"


Instead, they are focusing on the ignominious history (and trying to score points with someone for doing so). I'd say Michigan failed on this one, for, as the great and wise sages of Def Leppard once said, "better to burn out than fade away." They could've just let AD Yost fade away quietly; instead, Yost is getting another undeserved run in the sun.

 

[MichVandal]

Thank you for proving my point so perfectly! How long have you been indoctrinated into the New World Order?

Yea, attack other people for having an open mind. Great way to proceed. I'm sure that always works out.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I love than an OSU fan is getting bent out of shape about a Michigan problem.

What a time to be alive.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Back in the same era, Hitler's views were considered OK, too-

Hitler is mentioned twice in the full 36-page report on Yost. The first time when describing Ward's loss of competitive drive for competing in track, which he did so "out of a belief based on his brush with Jim Crow in Ann Arbor that if Hitler asked the U.S. to leave Black athletes off the 1936 Olympic team, they would." That somewhat supports your statement that Hitler's views were considered OK by some, but not by Ward. The second time when referencing a letter published in the “Campus Opinion" of the Michigan Daily 21 October 1934 that referred to the “Hitleristic tactics” used to disrupt a rally called by opponents the night before the football game. The use of that phrase shows that even in 1934 there where those did not consider Hitler's actions OK.

And speaking of the disruption of the rally, the report, in case you don't care to read it, states that "It is almost certain that the group had been asked to disrupt the meeting, by either Yost, Kipke, or both." Furthermore, before the rally and game Yost "representing the University of Michigan" contacted the Pinkerton National Detective Agency to "investigate certain matters" in Ann Arbor. The agents supplied Yost with a list of ringleaders of the protest movement. Should spying on students "back in that same era" be considered OK?

This is absolutely the dumbest, most ignorant, and wholly absurd comment I've ever had the misfortune or reading on these boards.

And here I though you had been on this board for longer than a day!

Nothing could be further from the truth. The western world was convulsed by the rise of Hitler and the only reason he came to power was that the European democracies, led by Britain and France (google Neville Chamberlain), chose to sit on its hands rather than step in militarily while it still could. Start by looking at the list of nations that formed the World War II Allies. It's a lot longer than the US, UK, and France. Even Brazil was an ally.

I believe that Hitler came to power because the European democracies were just that, democracies, and they believed that they had no power to determine who the German people elected. Once he was the German leader they did nothing when he unilaterally canceled the military clauses of the Treaty of Versailles and denounced the Locarno Pact and began remilitarizing of the Rhineland. However, I'm not sure what, if any, options they had to stop Hitler at that time.

As for WWII Allies, most were either European countries attacked by Germany and Italy or Commonwealth countries tied to the United Kingdom. As for Brazil, they actively joined the war after 36 off their merchant ships were sunk by the German and Italian navies.

Uh, no, not fully. There was a lot of support for Hitler in the US, then, too. Chamberlain tried to subdue Hitler, not fight him- had it not been for the invasion of Poland- which had treaty agreements with Britain and France, the war would have not gotten going, and the submission of Jews in Germany would have gone overlooked. You forget Mosley in the UK (along with the anti-war behind Chamberlain), the Bund here in the US, etc. Had it not been for the internal support within the Allies for Hitler, there would have been more done to prevent it before it got going.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_N..._Square_Garden

You can also read See The Moment One Brave Man Stormed A Big Nazi Rally In New York and watch a mini-documentary on the Nazi Rally at Madison Square Garden on YouTube. And while not actively pro-Nazi, don't forget the America First Committee which claimed over 800,000 paying members.

You also apparently are ignorant of the fact that tens of thousands of non-Jewish Germans were executed by the SS for treason against the Hitler regime.

BTW, the small amount of non-Jews (relatively) that were murdered in by the SS were fighting Hitler- either by trying to save Jews or just end Hitler's power. So I can't see how that even matters in the face of the millions of Jews murdered.

You are both overlooking the millions of eastern Europeans killed by the Nazis. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum estimates that besides the 6 million Jews the Nazis killed about 5.7 million Soviet civilians and another 3 million POWs, 1.8 million non-Jewish Polish civilians, over 300,000 Serb civilians, up to 250,000 people with disabilities living in institutions and between 250,000 and 500,000 Roma. That's about 11 million non-Jews and about 17 million people overall.

Sean

 

[MichVandal]

So I do want to say one thing- I was going to really think about it, but seeing the hate spewed over the reasons for the change- I'm thinking it's a very good idea. From the "it was ok in the day, so it must be ok now" to the "should have hidden the decision"- yea. It's the right thing to do at the right time.

If it hurts YOUR feelings that Yost is going to change name, suck it up. You don't care about other people's feelings, so why should anyone even give credibility to yours?

 

[GhostOfYost]

It truly doesn't matter what he did. How much can they sell the naming rights for?

That's what they are looking for. They "might" be using this as a way of renaming it after Berenson that was that doesn't even need to be considered when the new facility is built in 5-20 years? They can just go for the bucks right away.

 

[GhostOfYost]

Hitler is mentioned twice in the full 36-page report on Yost. The first time when describing Ward's loss of competitive drive for competing in track, which he did so "out of a belief based on his brush with Jim Crow in Ann Arbor that if Hitler asked the U.S. to leave Black athletes off the 1936 Olympic team, they would." That somewhat supports your statement that Hitler's views were considered OK by some, but not by Ward. The second time when referencing a letter published in the “Campus Opinion" of the Michigan Daily 21 October 1934 that referred to the “Hitleristic tactics” used to disrupt a rally called by opponents the night before the football game. The use of that phrase shows that even in 1934 there where those did not consider Hitler's actions OK.

And speaking of the disruption of the rally, the report, in case you don't care to read it, states that "It is almost certain that the group had been asked to disrupt the meeting, by either Yost, Kipke, or both." Furthermore, before the rally and game Yost "representing the University of Michigan" contacted the Pinkerton National Detective Agency to "investigate certain matters" in Ann Arbor. The agents supplied Yost with a list of ringleaders of the protest movement. Should spying on students "back in that same era" be considered OK?

And here I though you had been on this board for longer than a day!

I believe that Hitler came to power because the European democracies were just that, democracies, and they believed that they had no power to determine who the German people elected. Once he was the German leader they did nothing when he unilaterally canceled the military clauses of the Treaty of Versailles and denounced the Locarno Pact and began remilitarizing of the Rhineland. However, I'm not sure what, if any, options they had to stop Hitler at that time.

As for WWII Allies, most were either European countries attacked by Germany and Italy or Commonwealth countries tied to the United Kingdom. As for Brazil, they actively joined the war after 36 off their merchant ships were sunk by the German and Italian navies.



You can also read See The Moment One Brave Man Stormed A Big Nazi Rally In New York and watch a mini-documentary on the Nazi Rally at Madison Square Garden on YouTube. And while not actively pro-Nazi, don't forget the America First Committee which claimed over 800,000 paying members.



You are both overlooking the millions of eastern Europeans killed by the Nazis. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum estimates that besides the 6 million Jews the Nazis killed about 5.7 million Soviet civilians and another 3 million POWs, 1.8 million non-Jewish Polish civilians, over 300,000 Serb civilians, up to 250,000 people with disabilities living in institutions and between 250,000 and 500,000 Roma. That's about 11 million non-Jews and about 17 million people overall.

Sean

Funny that you are talking about Hitler's rise to power in a "democracy". trump's rise to power in a party which he wasn't even a member of 20 years ago mirrors that. Pretty much sums up the importance of this issue. Don't be stupid. If it offends you that much just continue calling it Yost, as old farts do with Pine Knob....

 

[GhostOfYost]

I'm curious of the opinions of hardcore Michigan hockey fans here like Wolverine Trumpet on how pis*ed they'd be if the name Children of Yost was banned?

Pretty sure it doesn't matter. Change the name? BTW, this is the reason why you attended that cess pool down south and you couldn't get into Michigan despite legacy status.