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The GQP Thread: I'm even sick of that fuck's number and, anyway, he's gone (for now)

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Kepler said:
Good article on the effect of the normalization of property violence by the Left and lethal violence by the Right.

tldr: we are going to have to roll that back if we want to avoid becoming Northern Ireland.
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The rioting and property destruction absolutely need to stop. I get the anger and righteous indignation (I use that term cautiously) after outrageous injustices, but violence doesn't stop other violence. All it does is make the cause look bad and embolden the Rittenhouses of the world.
 
Swansong said:
The rioting and property destruction absolutely need to stop. I get the anger and righteous indignation (I use that term cautiously) after outrageous injustices, but violence doesn't stop other violence. All it does is make the cause look bad and embolden the Rittenhouses of the world.
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It needs to stop from the inside. The last thing we need is for suburban rich white liberals to throw urban poor blacks under the bus. AGAIN.

I'm not going to tell people who have been fucked that bad that long what the parameters of their anger are. The bottom line stripped of everything is they have depended on us and every time it's inconvenient we throw them to the Nazis as a bargaining chip, and if I were they I wouldn't be playing by our rules anymore either.

Yes, it would be great if it stopped. But I don't pretend to know what life is like for people under real threat. If it was my kids lives I doubt I'd stop short of torching the local B of A.

Plus have you met the Right? They don't need any pretext -- they'll just make one up after. They count the guns and they are raring to go.

So other than just backing down the rhetoric, I don't know what else we can do. Some sort of massive non-violent pro-democracy movement where we all stop buying goods until they pass protections for voting. Grab the vampire squid and squeeze it until they force their bought Senators to do the right thing.
 
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Kepler said:
It needs to stop from the inside. The last thing we need is for suburban rich white liberals to throw urban poor blacks under the bus. AGAIN.

I'm not going to tell people who have been fucked that bad that long what the parameters of their anger are. The bottom line stripped of everything is they have depended on us and every time it's inconvenient we throw them to the Nazis as a bargaining chip, and if I were they I wouldn't be playing by our rules anymore either.

Yes, it would be great if it stopped. But I don't pretend to know what life is like for people under real threat. If it was my kids lives I doubt I'd stop short of torching the local B of A.

Plus have you met the Right? They don't need any pretext -- they'll just make one up after. They count the guns and they are raring to go.

So other than just backing down the rhetoric, I don't know what else we can do. Some sort of massive non-violent pro-democracy movement where we all stop buying goods until they pass protections for voting. Grab the vampire squid and squeeze it until they force their bought Senators to do the right thing.
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Shit, the first Pride was a riot and my queer elders threw bricks at cops.

And as someone who is under that threat, I'm really tired of being told "they go low, we go high." It's more like "they go low, we bury their bones too deep to find."
 
I'm not interested in telling people how they should feel, so I won't get into that at all.


But the violence almost always scares away people who might otherwise be on your side. The great middle that isn't a nazi but isn't a lefty either. The huge group of people that vascillate between R and D. You need, at least, some of those folks and you don't win them over by rioting.



I'm not talking about protests and rallies. Virtually all of last summer's BLM protests were peaceful. But what got 100% of the headlines?
 
Kepler said:
It needs to stop from the inside. The last thing we need is for suburban rich white liberals to throw urban poor blacks under the bus. AGAIN.

I'm not going to tell people who have been fucked that bad that long what the parameters of their anger are. The bottom line stripped of everything is they have depended on us and every time it's inconvenient we throw them to the Nazis as a bargaining chip, and if I were they I wouldn't be playing by our rules anymore either.

Yes, it would be great if it stopped. But I don't pretend to know what life is like for people under real threat. If it was my kids lives I doubt I'd stop short of torching the local B of A.

Plus have you met the Right? They don't need any pretext -- they'll just make one up after. They count the guns and they are raring to go.

So other than just backing down the rhetoric, I don't know what else we can do. Some sort of massive non-violent pro-democracy movement where we all stop buying goods until they pass protections for voting. Grab the vampire squid and squeeze it until they force their bought Senators to do the right thing.
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That is a really good article.

One of the points that I don't think people consider enough is the discussion about another civil war, and how unlikely it is simply because the geography is different. It's not north and south, divided by a line of state borders, but instead, little internal geographical differences on a state by state basis between urban and rural residents. There is this tendency by many in the media and on social media to turn this into a midwest/deep south versus east coast/west coast battle, but that just isn't true.

But I chuckled at this in the article. When Mason was asked about the "cause" of the increase in political violence in the country, this was her response.

So what's causing it? One cause is this increasingly not just polarized but really kind of nasty politics where we have started to vilify people in the other party to dehumanize them, to think of them as evil rather than just politically wrong. The outcomes of elections become much more dire.


At lease we don't have to put up with that in Cafe, right?

The other thing she is right about is the very first, and most important step, is to tone down the rhetoric and correct misperceptions about how violent the other side is.
 
Kepler said:
So other than just backing down the rhetoric, I don't know what else we can do. Some sort of massive non-violent pro-democracy movement where we all stop buying goods until they pass protections for voting. Grab the vampire squid and squeeze it until they force their bought Senators to do the right thing.
Click to expand...

I would love a good old fashioned boycott. I fear though that most Americans might be too lazy and self-centered to carry off an effective one. We don't want to go without. And on top of that we'd still hear voices saying we are doing the wrong thing, hurting the wrong people, putting innocent people out of work.

In the end we're left with nothing. There are no political solutions to our dying democracy, and too many people on the left have a stubborn streak of humanity and decency, so we're not gonna fight back with anything like the tactics the right is using.

Most decent people, and certainly most progressives, would have been horrified if on 1-6-21 law enforcement would have defended the Capitol and themselves with widescale lethal force. Yet widescale lethal force is all that side understands. The only reason they should not have been met with it is if a tactical assessment would have found that would have put the assembled law enforcement in greater danger. That was one of the excuses given, but I do not buy it. On 1-6-21 the insurrectionists were enemy combatants, and should have been dealt with like any others.

We are going to turn into Northern Ireland. Or worse. And by the time the left starts really fighting back, it will be too late to effectively save our democracy.
 
MissThundercat said:
****, the first Pride was a riot and my queer elders threw bricks at cops.

And as someone who is under that threat, I'm really tired of being told "they go low, we go high." It's more like "they go low, we bury their bones too deep to find."
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Yes, like I said, it's up to the people who will actually die to make those choices. I'm on my parapet; I don't get a vote.
 
SJHovey said:
The other thing she is right about is the very first, and most important step, is to tone down the rhetoric and correct misperceptions about how violent the other side is.
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Misperceptions about how violent the other side it? Other than me, there are virtually no calls to violence on this board, and this forum is made up mostly of lefties and lefty leaning folks. The right commits violent acts FAR MORE frequently than the center or the left in this country. It isn't even close. Republican politicians use far more violent and incendiary rhetoric than Democratic politicians. That isn't even close either. A comedian tweets a picture of herself holding a severed dummy head of trump and her career is ended (by all rights she was not very funny and probably shouldn't have had a career in that field) and a republican politician tweets an animated video of him killing a fellow member of congress and republicans will likely re-elect him. I'd say any perception of the right being violent (and far more so than the left) are pretty much spot-on.
 
Swansong said:
I'm not talking about protests and rallies. Virtually all of last summer's BLM protests were peaceful. But what got 100% of the headlines?
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The same reason all the headlines are about Joe Biden's failed presidency and ruined economy. Cause that's what the Right are pushing. And the media lapdog are all too happy to be their demographers.

The reality doesn't matter. Only the Republican narrative.
 
Quit being hysterical. Didn’t someone just this week hint that our board just isn’t a safe space anymore for white conservative men ?

we’re all just hysterical
 
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