D1 Coaching Changes

[ARM]

... when you have one of the top programs in the country, you're going to lose assistant coaches from time to time.

Yeah, it's been a regular revolving door at Wisco. And BC, for that matter.

According to Brad Frost, Idalski's teams at UND were as good as anyone at making in-game adjustments. Apparently, the Whioux would run one set of systems in the first period, and then completely change it up for the second. Whether that was Idalski or Elander, Frost didn't say.

 

[shelfit]

Yeah, it's been a regular revolving door at Wisco. And BC, for that matter.

According to Brad Frost, Idalski's teams at UND were as good as anyone at making in-game adjustments. Apparently, the Whioux would run one set of systems in the first period, and then completely change it up for the second. Whether that was Idalski or Elander, Frost didn't say.

My 16U and 19U coaches ran a different forecheck with each line based on the different skillsets of each line, and a different power play with each of our two PP units, so changing "systems" from one period to the next seems less challenging for an opponent than different forechecking systems on three different lines. Just saying, what Idalski did doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

 

[Lindsay]

MacDonald was an assistant coach at St Cloud for 5 years, they won just under 50 games in those 5 years and they promoted him to head coach. underwhelming hire at the time and proved to be as much. From the outside looking in I don’t think promoting Engstrom to head coach makes sense given the past 3 year performance of the team but certainly there’s a precedent at St Cloud for doing as much. None of us will be surprised though if it turns out only guys get promotions like that. Good for Engstrom for putting her name in the hat.

I’m a little surprised at the OSU revolving door of coaches. I understand it’s a turnover type job but you’d think there would be one that would stick eventually, happy to grow into an associate head coach role.

 

[Lindsay]

I agree. With two women in the NCAA final it is clear that women are able to coach hockey. In some idealistic future, maybe we will even see them coaching NFL teams. But for now, let's give some opportunities to the women who have worked their way through the crease. Engstrom, yeh!

not sure if you meant NFL teams but the Browns did hire a woman as their AGM yesterday which was cool. (I’m assuming she was qualified, yes people should be qualified for the jobs they get.)

I share your enthusiasm though, it’s great to see more women in coaching roles. A lot of time’s the best coaching jobs don’t go to women until a scandal of some degree occurs. It’s nice when women earn a job and get it in a healthy way. Princeton is one of the best examples in women’s hockey right now for that. Kampersal had a healthy program, competent associate head coach who happened to be a woman, he got his next opportunity and advocated for her to take over.

 

[ARM]

Just saying, what Idalski did doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

Likely, the flaw lies in my retelling. In any case, Frost thought the UND teams of that era were the most challenging in terms of showing different looks to an opponent.

For example, it seems to be fairly common for teams to run different PP schemes for their 2nd and 3rd, if they have one, units. When that is done from game to game, the opponent can see it on film. When the change occurs within a unit during a game, the challenge isn't just for the opponent to adjust, but for the players implementing a different system. Whether working with something like computer software or business processes, nothing introduced more errors than change.

 

[Timothy A]

Idalski needs an assistant with a personality and a pulse, period. You know, the opposite of himself. Lol.

MJ is the same way, he comes off as very snoozer city in public.

Engstrom is in a bad spot because as part of the old staff, she is someWatts responsible for them not being good. She has to over-sell herself to overcome that.

 

[Timothy A]

Looks like Coach Muzerall will need to bring in a couple of assistants this offseason. I wish we could keep assistants around longer, but when you have one of the top programs in the country, you're going to lose assistant coaches from time to time. I am looking forward to seeing who Coach brings in to replace Zoe and Emily.

It's a miracle she has the kind of success she has with her eating assistants alive. And the thing is they leave for lateral positions at best. I'd love to sit in on her therapy sessions. That is one wildly complicated person.

 

[pgb-ohio]

It's a miracle she has the kind of success she has with her eating assistants alive. And the thing is they leave for lateral positions at best. I'd love to sit in on her therapy sessions. That is one wildly complicated person.

I know you're having a lot of fun with this, and I really don't mind. I know Watts going on. But the more time goes by, the more I question your theory that behind closed doors, Coach Muzz is some sort of impossible-to-work-with psychopath.

Now I'll admit I don't get to go behind those closed doors. But I do follow the team pretty closely. I just don't see evidence of the kind of strife you delight in imagining. Particularly this year.

I'll further admit that during the drive back to Columbus from Penn State, one of the many thoughts I had was: Well, this is one year we won't have to replace Assistant Coaches. Who would want to leave after an amazing ride like that? But of course there are now two vacancies to fill.

So I can't blame you for raising the issue. And I certainly don't have the definitive answer for the turnover. But I have started to wonder if the assistant hires stem from a conscious strategy to get the best available talent, period -- even if it's known up front they're only available for the short term. The NHLers and Coach Elander likely fit that profile.

As for the rest, maybe selling a "tour of duty" is easy, but selling a permanent relocation is a bigger challenge. Ohio State is a great place to go to school. Columbus is a great place to raise a family. But what about those who aren't sure if they want to put down roots? Maybe settling permanently in a city that isn't a traditional hockey hotbed is a tougher sell?

If someone is well-connected to the University as a whole, this should be a non-issue. But when I try to put myself in the skates of an Assistant Coach -- coming in with no previous connection to OSU or Central Ohio -- it occurs to me that this isn't the easiest place to be new. But I can also tell you from personal experience: Give it a fair chance, and living in Columbus can work out very well.

 

[D2D]

Give it a fair chance, and living in Columbus can work out very well.

Maybe not for quite a few assistant coaches hired by Muzz since she took over. Granted, mostly all for different reasons - and it certainly has worked out well for Muzz - so far.
It would be interesting to compile a list of assistants who have left the program, since hired, and where they ended up since.

 

[Scott_TG]

Maybe not for quite a few assistant coaches hired by Muzz since she took over. Granted, mostly all for different reasons - and it certainly has worked out well for Muzz - so far.
It would be interesting to compile a list of assistants who have left the program, since hired, and where they ended up since.

I was expecting a much larger list reading this thread. Three most recent I cannot find any details. I did not include volunteer assistants. [TABLE="width: 340"]
[TR]
[TD]Emily West[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zoe Hickel[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Millica McMillen[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Elander[/TD]
[TD]HC Denmark National Hockey Team[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jess Koizumi[/TD]
[TD]Associate HC at UVM[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[pgb-ohio]

Maybe not for quite a few assistant coaches hired by Muzz since she took over. Granted, mostly all for different reasons - and it certainly has worked out well for Muzz - so far.
It would be interesting to compile a list of assistants who have left the program, since hired, and where they ended up since.

In that portion of my comment, I was referring more to non-coaching reasons.

I'm not an Ohio native. I moved here as an adult. I came in with some limited connections. I've lived here happily for decades. But my personal "testimony" is that Central Ohio isn't the easiest place to be new. Nor is it the toughest. It has worked for me. FWIW.

I was gently suggesting that some of the departures may be related to a desire to move back closer to home; move to more of a hockey hotbed; or simply a desire to put down roots somewhere else.

I was expecting a much larger list reading this thread. Three most recent I cannot find any details. I did not include volunteer assistants.

The Volunteer Assistants are big part of the conversation, however. At least in the eyes of those who use every departure as "evidence against." For me, serving in a volunteer capacity for one year and then moving on is a reasonable option. At the same time, I do agree that when someone accepts a paid, full-time position, you'd generally hope for more.

I'm not disputing that the turnover rate is too high. I concede that I have more questions than answers. I'm just saying I don't believe that "impossible to work with the Head Coach" is the entire answer, or even most of it.

 

[shelfit]

In that portion of my comment, I was referring more to non-coaching reasons.

I'm not an Ohio native. I moved here as an adult. I came in with some limited connections. I've lived here happily for decades. But my personal "testimony" is that Central Ohio isn't the easiest place to be new. Nor is it the toughest. It has worked for me. FWIW.

I was gently suggesting that some of the departures may be related to a desire to move back closer to home; move to more of a hockey hotbed; or simply a desire to put down roots somewhere else.



The Volunteer Assistants are big part of the conversation, however. At least in the eyes of those who use every departure as "evidence against." For me, serving in a volunteer capacity for one year and then moving on is a reasonable option. At the same time, I do agree that when someone accepts a paid, full-time position, you'd generally hope for more.

I'm not disputing that the turnover rate is too high. I concede that I have more questions than answers. I'm just saying I don't believe that "impossible to work with the Head Coach" is the entire answer, or even most of it.

I think it actually might be. Heck, if I had the choice between working for the Muzzinator in Central OH and working with the lawsuit winner in sunny CA, well that's just a no-brainer! Lmao

 

[Lindsay]

I was expecting a much larger list reading this thread. Three most recent I cannot find any details. I did not include volunteer assistants. [TABLE="width: 340"]
[TR]
[TD]Emily West[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zoe Hickel[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Millica McMillen[/TD]
[TD]?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Peter Elander[/TD]
[TD]HC Denmark National Hockey Team[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jess Koizumi[/TD]
[TD]Associate HC at UVM[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is an excellent observation. Really Koizumi and Elander are the only ones that were one and done. Elander was also there at a weird time for OSU, summer/fall 2018 had 2 scandals at the school unrelated to hockey and he was fresh off UND axing their women’s program. Can see a person being disillusioned with the NCAA scene after that particularly if they have options elsewhere.

Like others, I wonder if one of the SCSU candidates will end up at OSU.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Another perspective: If the players are:
1. Winning on the Ice;
2. Winning in the Classroom; and
3. Generally Satisfied...

... Maybe things aren't broken. Maybe there's no need to be looking for fixes.

 

[Timothy A]

Interestingly, last season Frosty had to replace both coaches and I think it's safe to say last season they exceeded their fan's expectations. Of course part of their success was due to WI poorly constructing their roster. It wasn't built to sustain injuries and a few D ending up not playing to hoped expectations.

 

[Scott_TG]

The Volunteer Assistants are big part of the conversation, however. At least in the eyes of those who use every departure as "evidence against." For me, serving in a volunteer capacity for one year and then moving on is a reasonable option. At the same time, I do agree that when someone accepts a paid, full-time position, you'd generally hope for more.

I'm not disputing that the turnover rate is too high. I concede that I have more questions than answers. I'm just saying I don't believe that "impossible to work with the Head Coach" is the entire answer, or even most of it.

Maybe as a DIII alumnus I am too used to the constant turnover of paid assistants to even register volunteer ones, but I find the idea that the turnover of people doing unpaid work is a reflection of anything about the head coach is absurd. People need to make money to survive in this world. To be able to hang around unpaid as a coach they would have to be someone with strong roots in the community with a real job that pays their bills. A volunteer likely wouldn't be around the program to anywhere near the same amount as those being paid by the university, so their impact is negligible.

I would like to hear from anyone who thinks a volunteer assistant has made a huge impact on a championship program.

EDIT: The only OSU volunteer coach under Muzerall that I can find on a Google search is Kenneth Johansson, the volunteer goalie coach from 2017-19 (not even 1 and done!) who it appears returned to his native Sweden. Who else should I be looking for?

 

[Lindsay]

Scott, they’ve had at least one ex Blue Jacket player volunteer, I want to say more than one. I do think those folks can make a difference. Muzerall also credited a goalie coach this year, not sure if they were volunteer or not.

I maintain that growing into an associate head coach role at OSU would be a great job for someone.

edit: James Wisnieski is the Blue Jacket Inwas thinking of. He was with them in 19/20 when they won the WCHA tourney but NCAA tourney canceled.

 

[Timothy A]

I would like to hear from anyone who thinks a volunteer assistant has made a huge impact on a championship program.

Mark Greenhalgh (women's team) and Bill Howard (men's team). Next question!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Maybe as a DIII alumnus I am too used to the constant turnover of paid assistants to even register volunteer ones, but I find the idea that the turnover of people doing unpaid work is a reflection of anything about the head coach is absurd. People need to make money to survive in this world. To be able to hang around unpaid as a coach they would have to be someone with strong roots in the community with a real job that pays their bills.

I'm with you. But of course I'm not among those who need persuading.

A volunteer likely wouldn't be around the program to anywhere near the same amount as those being paid by the university, so their impact is negligible.

I would like to hear from anyone who thinks a volunteer assistant has made a huge impact on a championship program.

Well, there's a lot of real estate between "negligible impact" and "huge impact." I'll try to stake out a middle ground and say that meaningful contributions are possible. But I still agree with the general thrust of your comment.

 

[hockeynomad1234]

For all intents and purposes, Cassels and Wisniewski (two of the "volunteer" coaches) were full-time assistants....lack of college degree effectively prevented them from being full-time.

Theres different levels of Volunteer Coaches of course but a strong majority *are* nearly always around the program theyre coaching at. The goal is usually for them to be getting experience to eventually be full-time coaches so theyre gonna be heavily involved. And particularly with staffs that are smaller, their voice will be louder of course. The times where a volunteer will have less of a voice is if they have a concurrent job that may take them away for stretches of time or if theyre more of "an advisor" (think Babcock with UVM this year).

As also for OSU, there has been numerous assistants as well as support staff who were there that have been moved within the department or moved on(ATs, DOs, EQs, Strength Coaches)...and in most cases as someone pointed out its a lateral move at best or nowhere at worst.