Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[Handyman]

So, I'm seeing some more chatter from non-Q "conservative" friends that the "losing" streak by Trump's legal team is just a fast lane to the Supreme Court handing him the presidency.



Also, the President Pelosi bit last page is funny, but the 117th congress would make that decision, and only one representative per state gets to choose. More states are Republican controlled and would likely swing their rep in Trump's favor.

That isnt how it works at this point. That only happens if neither candidate gets to 270. That scenario cannot happen now short of electors going rogue.

From where we are in the process any Constitutional Crisis leads to the SOTH becoming interim President until the House and Senate fix all challenges.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Well, it’s different. The house vote only happens if it’s 269-269, right? Otherwise if there’s a failure to hold a vote, it follows the PLOS.

I thought. Ymmv

The 12th Amendment requires one candidate to have a majority (270) of the EC. The house would vote in any case where no candidate has 270. So a 269-269 tie requires a house vote. But so does a scenario in which Biden has 260 EC votes, trump 232, and Kepler, running on the Socialist Party Ticket, has the remaining 46. In those scenarios, the house votes, one vote per state, and trump wins.

What I want to know is what the House will do if there are disputed electors, or if there are court cases still pending. It is clear the republicans are hoping to delay this process as long as possible. The recount is grinding to a halt in WI. MI is not going to certify their election tomorrow because the state canvass will be a 2-2 tie. We know they are trying to get PA to hold off. What happens when tow duly elected entities BOTH claim the right to send a slate of electors? Subtract the 46 votes from PA, MI and WI from Biden and suddenly he only has 260 undisputed EC votes. What slate does the U.H. House recognize? Does the ENTIRE House get to vote on that? Normally we refer to their function taking place on January 6th, 2021 as simply an official counting of the ballots. Who is to say what ballots they count?

Again, all the republicans want is to delay this long enough that it devolves into chaos. Or until trump's hand-picked, possibly just for this scenario, Supreme Court decides in his favor.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Conservative judges have been tossing these cases with little patience. How would we get from here to Robot Amy agreeing to throw out all mail in ballots in the key states?

Appeals. You don't like what one judge tells you, you go over his or her head. Eventually you end up in the Supreme Court. I am heartened that so many judges have decided to follow the actual law. I would hope trump's 6-3 majority, possibly hand-picked for just this scenario, decides to also follow the law if they are tasked with making a decision on the 2020 election.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Appeals. You don't like what one judge tells you, you go over his or her head. Eventually you end up in the Supreme Court. I am heartened that so many judges have decided to follow the actual law. I would hope trump's 6-3 majority, possibly hand-picked for just this scenario, decides to also follow the law if they are tasked with making a decision on the 2016 election.

I Understand how appeals work. I’m just not seeing how people outside Alito and kavanaugh would have such a drastic view different than what these federalist society judges have already been tossing

 

[Handyman]

If I read right at this point it isnt about the 12th. If dueling electors are sent and both houses cant agree on a slate (and if the Governors Tie breaker isnt used) then it isnt a 12th Amedment problem. This falls under the purview of the Electoral Count Act.

By imposing strict limits on procedures, debate, and recesses, the Electoral Count Act is designed to help Congress achieve an election result before the term of the outgoing president ends. Nevertheless, if no new president (or vice president) has been elected by that time, the Twentieth Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act would mean that the Speaker of the House would be sworn in as acting president. Notably, Section 1 of the amendment makes clear that the terms of the outgoing president and vice president shall end on January 20 at noon; they cannot be extended except by constitutional amendment.

If both Houses cannot agree then there is a failure to elect. As such the 20th Amendment is the focus. Since no President and Vice President have been confirmed next in line for succession is the Speaker of the House. Pelosi would hold the office until a deal is struck. Meanwhile Congress can only meet to debate the Electors they cannot do anything else. It is not a scenario the GOP wants.

This stuff was put in because of 1876 where the Dems tried the same move only they figured if the Electors were disputed it would go to the House (which I believe they controlled) and the Senate was Republican so they figured they had all the power since they count the votes. It was a mess. The ECA was supposed to solve that. It kind of does...

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

I’m just not seeing how people outside Alito and kavanaugh would have such a drastic view different than what these federalist society judges have already been tossing

This is the hope we all share, if it actually got that far.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

If I read right at this point it isnt about the 12th. If dueling electors are sent and both houses cant agree on a slate (and if the Governors Tie breaker isnt used) then it isnt a 12th Amedment problem. This falls under the purview of the Electoral Count Act.



If both Houses cannot agree then there is a failure to elect. As such the 20th Amendment is the focus. Since no President and Vice President have been confirmed next in line for succession is the Speaker of the House. Pelosi would hold the office until a deal is struck. Meanwhile Congress can only meet to debate the Electors they cannot do anything else. It is not a scenario the GOP wants.

This stuff was put in because of 1876 where the Dems tried the same move only they figured if the Electors were disputed it would go to the House (which I believe they controlled) and the Senate was Republican so they figured they had all the power since they count the votes. It was a mess. The ECA was supposed to solve that. It kind of does...

Good find. This helps with the further scenarios I wondered about.

 

[Handyman]

I have spent sadly WAY too much time looking at this stuff the past 6 months. There is a lot of weird scenarios that could in theory play out but this was never one I thought would actually be relevant...

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

There is a lot of weird scenarios that could in theory play out but this was never one I thought would actually be relevant...

Yup. Living in trump's AmeriKKKa sure has been a trip. I miss the days of George W. Bush when the federal administration was merely incompetent on most days and evil only on every 3rd Thursday. I always knew there was a possibility, however remote, that this country could collapse out of its own incompetence. But I never really expected treason and now sedition, which have filled every single day of trump's presidency. That nearly one out of every two adults in this country don't see it has been our biggest failing.

 

[Handyman]

Wow Chuck Todd seems to have stepped in it again today:

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1330530318739263490

“It looks like Biden is going to be the apparent winner. There’s still more to go through,” are real words that came out of Chuck Todd’s mouth this morning.

https://twitter.com/MattNegrin/status/1330524756463005705

15 days ago Biden won the election. Today @chucktodd gave Republican Sen. Kevin Cramer 8 minutes on @MeetThePress to push the conspiracy theory that Biden did not win You can lie about anything and the media will always invite you back

 

[Handyman]

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1330572262047690752

Trump's legal team is now asserting that DOUG COLLINS, not KELLY LOEFFLER would be participating in the January 5 runoff if Brian Kemp hadn't rigged the voting machines. Does LOEFFLER agree? Or will she admit that the Trump campaign's claims of voter fraud are BS.

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1330575153428897797

"We don't know who bought their election.. I'm sure it crosses party lines.. I'm reasonably certain John James was ripped out of his seat, and he was entitled to have won that election by the real vote, and the same thing is true for Doug Collins in Georgia." —@SidneyPowell1

So they obviously think Loeffler is the weaker of the two runoff candidates and are throwing her right under the bus.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Wow Chuck Todd seems to have stepped in it again today:

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1330530318739263490



https://twitter.com/MattNegrin/status/1330524756463005705

Jesus, I wonder if Scooby was watching? Chuck Todd sets him into the murderous rage that, well that every republican sets me into. At times the media is every bit as bad as trump says it is. For completely different reasons of course, but I can't think of anything that sounds more like fake news than saying "It looks like Biden is going to be the apparent winner. There’s still more to go through." I do think that Chuck Todd is useless on his very best days, a complete tool on his merely average days and on most days he is pitifully awful.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Can't wait for the trump tweet with the appropriate name calling for these comments. When you've lost Chris Christie you've lost... well I'm not sure what you've lost. I do know your table full of Arby's roast beef sandwiches is probably a little safer.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Favreau gives a good run down of what may happen in Michigan

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1330605595758477312

 

[dxmnkd316]

Why even have anyone certify if they can just be replaced Willy nilly by the governor? This whole system is just a big fucking jambaroo

 

[Handyman]

Why even have anyone certify if they can just be replaced Willy nilly by the governor? This whole system is just a big ****ing jambaroo

Why have a board with even numbers? They are just begging for something like this to happen when they are political positions.

Favreau does a very good job explaining why all of this is just stupid.

 

[Handyman]

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1330638725550923776

Trump Campaign distancing themselves from Sidney Powell...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Why have a board with even numbers? They are just begging for something like this to happen when they are political positions.

Favreau does a very good job explaining why all of this is just stupid.

I’d rather be guaranteed half than let Rs fuck us all at the state level.

 

[Handyman]

I’d rather be guaranteed half than let Rs **** us all at the state level.

They should be non-political appointees. Having full on political operatives on the board is ripe for corruption and crap like this. Look at Wayne County for Gritty's Sake!

 

[dxmnkd316]

They should be non-political appointees. Having full on political operatives on the board is ripe for corruption and crap like this. Look at Wayne County for Gritty's Sake!

I don’t know how any position like that can be considered non-political.

Fundamentally, I agree with you. This is all fucking stupid. But I’d rather be sure we have a seat at the table than be shutout because Rs take the majority for more than a day.