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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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Kepler said:
I have a different theory and I'm not being snarky.

I think ideological blindness can literally make us stupid. It disables the cognitive parts (and/or processes) in our brains that typically distinguish smart from stupid people.

There's nothing magical about being smart, it's just a gift from the gods like a great fastball or high cheek bones. That means that thing is subject to change under potential stimulae. Trauma is an obvious one: bash a guy in the head with a 2x4 and he's going to drop from Yale to Michigan.

I hypothesize ideological blindness actually traumatizes the brain and damages people's ability to think. He's not lying, he honestly cannot see because he is suffering from a localized mental incapacity. Surely there has been neurological research to test this and perhaps it fails but it's my hypothesis.
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Plus, he's a UHN fan.
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
A good question. I can speak a bit on it but I would caveat that there are a lot of details that are nuanced that may not translate well.

Different states do have different requirements that trigger an autopsy. Age, reason noted for death, circumstances surrounding death, level of involvement of medical professionals etc. Ultimately that is the best way to determine the exact cause of death in most cases if in the hands of an experienced and well trained pathologist. It is helpful for record keeping but it is also important learning opportunity. NEJM has a weekly section from Mass General that has countless lessons learned from autopsy.

Coronary artery disease is very common and we have good ideas of historical rates. Most people with CAD do not have heart attacks. If we start seeing changes in the pattern of patients (which is not too challenging, especially in the setting of a tertiary care facility where one team is caring for all heart attacks or strokes), it is a reasonable assumption the ongoing pandemic is changing that. We have actually seen this, with mild heart attacks and strokes essentially staying home, and an increase in more severe or atypical heart attacks/strokes (like in the young, no other clear co-morbidities).

Covid-19 is pro-thrombotic, we have learned. It has a high rate of pulmonary embolism, ischemic stroke, heart attack, DVT etc in hospitalized patients and a thrombotic event as the presenting symptom is not that uncommon.

Ultimately, it comes down to where you die and the physician who cared for you to determine most etiologies of death. If you have a patient with clear signs of Covid-19 infection and a thrombotic event, you are more likely to identify that as an etiology. If it is a positive test but you do not feel it was a large contributor, you may not identify it. The vast majority of physicians, especially the ICU docs that are doing most of this, are great, compassionate professionals. The degree of rampant fraud or incompetence required to drastically change the numbers is near impossible and would require a vast conspiracy of hundreds of thousand individuals.
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What are your thoughts on the PCR test?
 
Kepler said:
There's nothing magical about being smart, it's just a gift from the gods like a great fastball or high cheek bones. That means that thing is subject to change under potential stimulae. Trauma is an obvious one: bash a guy in the head with a 2x4 and he's going to drop from Yale to Michigan.
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chefs kiss
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
Covid-19 is pro-thrombotic, we have learned. It has a high rate of pulmonary embolism, ischemic stroke, heart attack, DVT etc in hospitalized patients and a thrombotic event as the presenting symptom is not that uncommon.
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Interesting, as I just saw this article which seems to back up your experiences.

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supe...teresting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

As bradykinin builds up in the body, it dramatically increases vascular permeability. In short, it makes your blood vessels leaky. This aligns with recent clinical data, which increasingly views Covid-19 primarily as a vascular disease, rather than a respiratory one. But Covid-19 still has a massive effect on the lungs. As blood vessels start to leak due to a bradykinin storm, the researchers say, the lungs can fill with fluid. Immune cells also leak out into the lungs, Jacobson’s team found, causing inflammation.

And Covid-19 has another especially insidious trick. Through another pathway, the team’s data shows, it increases production of hyaluronic acid (HLA) in the lungs. HLA is often used in soaps and lotions for its ability to absorb more than 1,000 times its weight in fluid. When it combines with fluid leaking into the lungs, the results are disastrous: It forms a hydrogel, which can fill the lungs in some patients. According to Jacobson, once this happens, “it’s like trying to breathe through Jell-O.”
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WisconsinWildcard said:
A good question. I can speak a bit on it but I would caveat that there are a lot of details that are nuanced that may not translate well.

Different states do have different requirements that trigger an autopsy. Age, reason noted for death, circumstances surrounding death, level of involvement of medical professionals etc. Ultimately that is the best way to determine the exact cause of death in most cases if in the hands of an experienced and well trained pathologist. It is helpful for record keeping but it is also important learning opportunity. NEJM has a weekly section from Mass General that has countless lessons learned from autopsy.

Coronary artery disease is very common and we have good ideas of historical rates. Most people with CAD do not have heart attacks. If we start seeing changes in the pattern of patients (which is not too challenging, especially in the setting of a tertiary care facility where one team is caring for all heart attacks or strokes), it is a reasonable assumption the ongoing pandemic is changing that. We have actually seen this, with mild heart attacks and strokes essentially staying home, and an increase in more severe or atypical heart attacks/strokes (like in the young, no other clear co-morbidities).

Covid-19 is pro-thrombotic, we have learned. It has a high rate of pulmonary embolism, ischemic stroke, heart attack, DVT etc in hospitalized patients and a thrombotic event as the presenting symptom is not that uncommon.

Ultimately, it comes down to where you die and the physician who cared for you to determine most etiologies of death. If you have a patient with clear signs of Covid-19 infection and a thrombotic event, you are more likely to identify that as an etiology. If it is a positive test but you do not feel it was a large contributor, you may not identify it. The vast majority of physicians, especially the ICU docs that are doing most of this, are great, compassionate professionals. The degree of rampant fraud or incompetence required to drastically change the numbers is near impossible and would require a vast conspiracy of hundreds of thousand individuals.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I always assumed it was up to the individual doctors to decide what to list as the cause of death, so it seemed unlikely that they would have all gotten together to list Covid as the reason if it really wasn't the reason. But I was also curious how much flexibility they have to decide whether it's a Covid death or something else.

I think here in Minnesota we're going to hear a lot more on this topic on a somewhat related note when the George Floyd trials start. News reports have given hints that "cause of death" is likely going to be the topic of some debate in that trial, if the defense has their way.
 
SJHovey said:
Interesting. I always assumed it was up to the individual doctors to decide what to list as the cause of death, so it seemed unlikely that they would have all gotten together to list Covid as the reason if it really wasn't the reason. But I was also curious how much flexibility they have to decide whether it's a Covid death or something else.

I think here in Minnesota we're going to hear a lot more on this topic on a somewhat related note when the George Floyd trials start. News reports have given hints that "cause of death" is likely going to be the topic of some debate in that trial, if the defense has their way.
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I'm not a doctor (but I work with them as a systems analyst - and yes play one on tv), but I think you may be somewhat misreading what he said. In most cases there is no autopsy, and the attending/PCP/whomever determines cause of death.
 
Swansong said:
I'm not a doctor (but I work with them as a systems analyst - and yes play one on tv), but I think you may be somewhat misreading what he said. In most cases there is no autopsy, and the attending/PCP/whomever determines cause of death.
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No, I understood that it was the attending physician (probably) who in most cases is determining cause of death. I was really more curious about how much flexibility they had in factoring in Covid, and what went into making the decision, which WW seemed to answer quite well.
 
Swansong said:
Well, if he's masking up and acknowledging the respect for others idea then I guess that's fine. But jesus, what a moron.
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Athletes are windows into the cognitive limits of everyday people. They're of average intellect, whereas many people in the public eye at least have some basic level of intelligence to achieve their notoriety. Most politicians at least went to school (athletes do too, but most never crack a book), even though it may have been some barely sentient Christian school. Most business people at least had some sort of native predatory wiliness to separate them from the pack.

The public people who are selected on a pure meritocratic standard for skills that have zero with do with intelligence are athletes, models, and actors, so that's why they seem so rock stupid. They are average.
 
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Kepler said:
Athletes are windows into the cognitive limits of everyday people. They're of average intellect, whereas many people in the public eye at least have some basic level of intelligence to achieve their notoriety. Most politicians at least went to school (athletes do too, but most never crack a book),
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Careful. I've heard that insulting athletes or making jokes about their educational efforts is not allowed.
 
Swansong said:
Well, if he's masking up and acknowledging the respect for others idea then I guess that's fine. But jesus, what a moron.
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What part of his comment do you think was the most moronic?

The morons are the people that make a big deal out of what one single person says or thinks. On par with the morons who make a big deal out of one single "case" (which most likely isn't even an infection).

a.) did his own risk assessment (which is spot on)
b.) chooses to live his life
c.) accepts the consequences (which I am not sure there really are any additional for him because he didn't paint a picture where he is taking on reckless risk.)
d.) is respectful and accommodating to others’ concerns.

Keep that nasty face diaper plastered to your face folks! Wouldn't want to test positive on that PCR test now with no symptoms, no infection and probably not even the entire sars-cov-2 virus.
 
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Can't help but think of the folks here in the Faculty Lounge when I saw this one ...

https://babylonbee.com/news/gavin-ne...-is-eradicated

SACRAMENTO, CA—Governor Gavin Newsom has released new guidelines for California's counties looking to reopen their businesses, saying that counties may only begin to lift their lockdowns once a cure for death itself has been found.

"Once we have beaten the last enemy, death itself, we can slowly begin to reopen over a 40-year period," Newsom said at a press conference Tuesday. "Counties that report even one death for any reason will be forced to keep closures in place indefinitely, until we have answered the eternal question of how to reverse aging and ensure no one can die ever."

"We can't be too careful -- we must all cower in fear until death has been conquered."

Newsom says acceptable markers for counties to slowly begin reopening would include discovering a mythical fountain of youth, inventing an immortality serum, or collecting all the Infinity stones to bend reality itself in order to end death itself.

At publishing time, Newsom had clarified that, of course, his own winery would remain open regardless.
 
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Babylon Bee. JFC, conservatives simply cannot do humor. It's like watching elementary school bullies try to craft bon mots.
 
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