RB just posted on the RPI thread that Jordan Smelker has renewed her contract with Boston for $14,000 per year. You would need to add three zeros to that to get to the highest salary in the NHL (Shea Weber) and you would need to multiply it by about 184 to get to the average NHL salary. There is an obvious reason for that: the NHL draws huge crowds to arenas and to TV. Women's hockey does not. But why not? Women's tennis and women's golf draw very strong followings and sponsorships...much lower than the men's games but still, top athletes in these sports can do very, very well. I like to watch women's tennis and women's golf and part of that is that in both cases the game is different (not necessarily better or worse) than the men's game. But that is also true of women's hockey: it is a very different game from men's hockey, but in my opinion it has a lot going for it. There are some aspects of women's hockey that make it less appealing than men's hockey, but there are also a lot of aspects that make it more appealing (same could be said for golf and tennis). So why is attendance so low? Truly baffles me. If you are reading this you obviously love women's college hockey. Are we crazy, or is the rest of the sports world missing something? Discuss.
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Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
- Thread starter hab
- Start date
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Golf is more popular than ice hockey, especially as you move up the socio-economic ladder. Men's sports are more popular than women's sports. Throw those together, and you get big pay gaps.
Tennis is a special case. In addition to being more popular than hockey, tennis has four events a year, the biggest four on their calendar, where the men and the women are competing in the same tournament. They have different brackets, obviously, but they're held at the same place and same time. That gave top women's players a larger, more publicized, venue for playing than did female athletes in other sports, and leverage for equal prize money that none of the rest could imagine.
Basketball is also a special case, as the NBA decided that, as a part of marketing itself to women, it would subsidize a women's league. The NHL has not made the same decision. From a purely bottom line perspective, I'm not at all sure that the NHL made the wrong choice, though I would really wish they would follow in the NBA's footsteps. Soccer made a similar decision to the NBA, though it looks a bit different given that FIFA is the organizing body for the whole sport, a role quite different than the IIHF has.
Golf is more popular than ice hockey, especially as you move up the socio-economic ladder. Men's sports are more popular than women's sports. Throw those together, and you get big pay gaps.
Tennis is a special case. In addition to being more popular than hockey, tennis has four events a year, the biggest four on their calendar, where the men and the women are competing in the same tournament. They have different brackets, obviously, but they're held at the same place and same time. That gave top women's players a larger, more publicized, venue for playing than did female athletes in other sports, and leverage for equal prize money that none of the rest could imagine.
Basketball is also a special case, as the NBA decided that, as a part of marketing itself to women, it would subsidize a women's league. The NHL has not made the same decision. From a purely bottom line perspective, I'm not at all sure that the NHL made the wrong choice, though I would really wish they would follow in the NBA's footsteps. Soccer made a similar decision to the NBA, though it looks a bit different given that FIFA is the organizing body for the whole sport, a role quite different than the IIHF has.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Right now, I'm not sure there is a big talent gap between the women pro and college teams.
Right now, I'm not sure there is a big talent gap between the women pro and college teams.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Maybe not, but if the salaries were high enough for the players to concentrate on hockey full time, I bet they would be.
Maybe not, but if the salaries were high enough for the players to concentrate on hockey full time, I bet they would be.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
How is the IIHF for hockey different from FIFA for Football (called soccer in NA only
).?
Both are the world wide governing body for their respective sports, with the National Bodies all members of thier organizations. Both FIFA and IIHF have been trying to grow the womens games of their sport and organize the various world championships.
Just like Hockey, with the exception of the elite games at Worlds/Olympics, both sports have trouble drawing fans to th womens games. I see more likeliness in the challenge than difference.
Tennis and Golf are different. They are individual sports, and typically garner a different audience. Personally like watching tennis, as there is pace and action. Golf is boring to watch IMHO. I like watching track and field (ran track myself), were like tennis both Men and Womens events are equally exciting to watch.
How is the IIHF for hockey different from FIFA for Football (called soccer in NA only
).? Both are the world wide governing body for their respective sports, with the National Bodies all members of thier organizations. Both FIFA and IIHF have been trying to grow the womens games of their sport and organize the various world championships.
Just like Hockey, with the exception of the elite games at Worlds/Olympics, both sports have trouble drawing fans to th womens games. I see more likeliness in the challenge than difference.
Tennis and Golf are different. They are individual sports, and typically garner a different audience. Personally like watching tennis, as there is pace and action. Golf is boring to watch IMHO. I like watching track and field (ran track myself), were like tennis both Men and Womens events are equally exciting to watch.
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Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Because all of the major soccer leagues around the world fall under the guidance of FIFA, while the NHL is not in any way governed by the IIHF.
How is the IIHF for hockey different from FIFA for Football (called soccer in NA only
Because all of the major soccer leagues around the world fall under the guidance of FIFA, while the NHL is not in any way governed by the IIHF.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
It's a niche of a niche of a niche sport in the USA. (That's women's college hockey, college hockey in general, and hockey in general, to be clear. Obviously, those niches vary in size.) Sports following/passion/interest is a very "chicken and the egg" kind of a thing, and one of the biggest drivers of buzz and interest is already-existing buzz and interest. People who are already spending a lot of their free time being fans of other hockey teams aren't likely to start really following NWHL teams to the point where they really feel emotionally invested.
That's more from the hockey side of things. As far as women's tennis is concerned, I'm sure a lot of research could be done, going back in the history of tennis to see how that sport got to be as high as it is in the public's consciousness. I would guess that it's easier to promote and talk about female stars in individual sports alongside their male counterparts. (And in the case of tennis, the men's and women's tournaments happen in conjunction with one another.) On the other hand, getting people to actively follow the women's version of a team sport is trickier, because the way people watch those sports is much different.
That's my speculation on the matter, and my attempt to say more than "because it just isn't" (see the chicken and the egg thing).
It's a niche of a niche of a niche sport in the USA. (That's women's college hockey, college hockey in general, and hockey in general, to be clear. Obviously, those niches vary in size.) Sports following/passion/interest is a very "chicken and the egg" kind of a thing, and one of the biggest drivers of buzz and interest is already-existing buzz and interest. People who are already spending a lot of their free time being fans of other hockey teams aren't likely to start really following NWHL teams to the point where they really feel emotionally invested.
That's more from the hockey side of things. As far as women's tennis is concerned, I'm sure a lot of research could be done, going back in the history of tennis to see how that sport got to be as high as it is in the public's consciousness. I would guess that it's easier to promote and talk about female stars in individual sports alongside their male counterparts. (And in the case of tennis, the men's and women's tournaments happen in conjunction with one another.) On the other hand, getting people to actively follow the women's version of a team sport is trickier, because the way people watch those sports is much different.
That's my speculation on the matter, and my attempt to say more than "because it just isn't" (see the chicken and the egg thing).
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
That's it right there. Hockey in general is a niche sport due to needing very specific equipment and a playing surface. I can go play basketball, football or soccer in the yard right now. I can play .500 or pickle in the yard too. I can drive 5 minutes to the tennis courts or bb fields. Anyone can take a stick and tennis ball and play hockey on a tennis court, but goals are not readily available and the goalie needs some pads. Of course I have a small rink with 2 goals in my basement and goalie equipment, but obviously I'm a weirdo. I cut a goalie out of plywood and painted him up in a UW uniform (I've often debated that I should have painted him in a UM uniform for obvious reasons, but the thought of those colors in my house is sickening), so I or the sons can even play by ourselves. There aren't many wives who will allow this sort of arrangement, but it helps if you build her a top notch scrap-booking area in the basement too.
That's it right there. Hockey in general is a niche sport due to needing very specific equipment and a playing surface. I can go play basketball, football or soccer in the yard right now. I can play .500 or pickle in the yard too. I can drive 5 minutes to the tennis courts or bb fields. Anyone can take a stick and tennis ball and play hockey on a tennis court, but goals are not readily available and the goalie needs some pads. Of course I have a small rink with 2 goals in my basement and goalie equipment, but obviously I'm a weirdo. I cut a goalie out of plywood and painted him up in a UW uniform (I've often debated that I should have painted him in a UM uniform for obvious reasons, but the thought of those colors in my house is sickening), so I or the sons can even play by ourselves. There aren't many wives who will allow this sort of arrangement, but it helps if you build her a top notch scrap-booking area in the basement too.
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Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
As a footnote men's hockey can also have some head scratchers with respect to attendance.
Canada just went down to defeat at the hands of Sweden tonight 5-4 in a canoe tipper that was decided in a shootout after a scoreless overtime at the U-18 World Championship Semi Final Game held at The Ralph. You got a good opportunity to check out the nice green leather upholstery on the seats in this, the nicest hockey arena on the planet, because the joint was way more than half empty. In this hockey town, a 2 hour drive from Winnipeg!
The US had been defeated earlier by Finland...maybe the crowd went to drown their sorrows.
When the two bridesmaids meet tomorrow in the Bronze Medal Game it will be interesting to see how big the crowd is...ditto for the Gold Medal Game...(tickets $25-35).
As a footnote men's hockey can also have some head scratchers with respect to attendance.
Canada just went down to defeat at the hands of Sweden tonight 5-4 in a canoe tipper that was decided in a shootout after a scoreless overtime at the U-18 World Championship Semi Final Game held at The Ralph. You got a good opportunity to check out the nice green leather upholstery on the seats in this, the nicest hockey arena on the planet, because the joint was way more than half empty. In this hockey town, a 2 hour drive from Winnipeg!
The US had been defeated earlier by Finland...maybe the crowd went to drown their sorrows.
When the two bridesmaids meet tomorrow in the Bronze Medal Game it will be interesting to see how big the crowd is...ditto for the Gold Medal Game...(tickets $25-35).
The U18 tournamemt does not have the hype of the WJHC and it occurs during tbe Stanley Cup and NBA tournaments as opposed to over a holiday break.
Maybe TSN can generate the hype machine to pump the tournament's tires and get Canadians frothing at the mouth like they do for the U20s.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Or maybe they can do the same for the various international women's tournaments. The only one they get the hype machine going for the women is the Olympics.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Actually, in fairness to TSN, they were bombarding their airwaves with a promotional commercial for the Women's Worlds in Kamloops for a month or so before the tournament began, as I believe they have done for a number of years...just as they do for the Men's World Junior Championship every year. But I don't recall seeing anything promoting the Clarkson Cup this year which is why I missed it. Made a mental note last year to remember that it's on around the same time as the Frozen Four...but forgot.
Actually, in fairness to TSN, they were bombarding their airwaves with a promotional commercial for the Women's Worlds in Kamloops for a month or so before the tournament began, as I believe they have done for a number of years...just as they do for the Men's World Junior Championship every year. But I don't recall seeing anything promoting the Clarkson Cup this year which is why I missed it. Made a mental note last year to remember that it's on around the same time as the Frozen Four...but forgot.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
“So why is attendance so low? Truly baffles me. If you are reading this you obviously love women's college hockey. Are we crazy, or is the rest of the sports world missing something? Discuss.”
Let’s see…women’s college hockey joins: offshore sailing, desert truck racing, team volleyball (as opposed to beach volleyball), badminton, bass fishing, hunting, curling, XC skiing, biathlon, …you get the picture. Some sports offer extraordinary challenge to the athletes, some offer audience potential to their families, and some athletes enjoy personal challenge and participation in cultural traditions. None of these sports have big physical or actual attendance for events, even at the Olympic level. But they survive.
Think of any hard fought men’s college hockey championship: yeah, the arena might be filled for some of the games, but not all, and often if a freak match-up occurs at the end, many of the fans of the favorite teams have already gone home. Of all the teams involved in a collegiate championship series, maybe ten or twelve players pick up pro contracts, and maybe three of four of them make it through the minor leagues to the pros, and only one or two of them play more than a few seasons. All the other ‘college champion’ players may play in local men’s leagues, some for the rest of their lives; their friends, fans, and families will rarely come to watch. They play because they love the game.
Most women who play hockey NEVER think they will play pro hockey; most never have the chance to play college hockey. But they love the sport, they play the games, and they pass on the love to the next generation, male or female. Hockey is not a ‘green’ sport: the manufactured ice, the travel, the equipment, etc. all bite into the global carbon budget. I don’t know what hockey will look like in 30 years. But I do think if there’s a pond that freezes in winter, somebody’s going to be playing the game. And that will include girls, and women. But not many people stand in the cold to watch pond hockey. Just like not many parents watch kids play ‘hit the bat’—it’s a game only for the players. (And yeah, I know, not many kids play hit the bat anymore, anyway.)
What could college hockey do to increase attendance? Maybe give free tickets to local high school coaches to encourage female athletes (and a friend or family member) to see a college level sport ….maybe colleges could actual stream quality live video the games, or offer the video, live or delayed, to a regional or statewide cable sports channel (they’re starved for content)…maybe a knowledgeable literate fan could be a columnist covering local women’s college hockey for free for the local paper which otherwise never covers the sport (or a local business could take out a sports page ad and run that columnist’s text)….
No one attends an event if they know nothing about it; heck, many of us learned to watch hockey by watching hours of kids at practices and games. I bet any parent of a college hockey player has seen more youth games than games at any pro level.
“So why is attendance so low? Truly baffles me. If you are reading this you obviously love women's college hockey. Are we crazy, or is the rest of the sports world missing something? Discuss.”
Let’s see…women’s college hockey joins: offshore sailing, desert truck racing, team volleyball (as opposed to beach volleyball), badminton, bass fishing, hunting, curling, XC skiing, biathlon, …you get the picture. Some sports offer extraordinary challenge to the athletes, some offer audience potential to their families, and some athletes enjoy personal challenge and participation in cultural traditions. None of these sports have big physical or actual attendance for events, even at the Olympic level. But they survive.
Think of any hard fought men’s college hockey championship: yeah, the arena might be filled for some of the games, but not all, and often if a freak match-up occurs at the end, many of the fans of the favorite teams have already gone home. Of all the teams involved in a collegiate championship series, maybe ten or twelve players pick up pro contracts, and maybe three of four of them make it through the minor leagues to the pros, and only one or two of them play more than a few seasons. All the other ‘college champion’ players may play in local men’s leagues, some for the rest of their lives; their friends, fans, and families will rarely come to watch. They play because they love the game.
Most women who play hockey NEVER think they will play pro hockey; most never have the chance to play college hockey. But they love the sport, they play the games, and they pass on the love to the next generation, male or female. Hockey is not a ‘green’ sport: the manufactured ice, the travel, the equipment, etc. all bite into the global carbon budget. I don’t know what hockey will look like in 30 years. But I do think if there’s a pond that freezes in winter, somebody’s going to be playing the game. And that will include girls, and women. But not many people stand in the cold to watch pond hockey. Just like not many parents watch kids play ‘hit the bat’—it’s a game only for the players. (And yeah, I know, not many kids play hit the bat anymore, anyway.)
What could college hockey do to increase attendance? Maybe give free tickets to local high school coaches to encourage female athletes (and a friend or family member) to see a college level sport ….maybe colleges could actual stream quality live video the games, or offer the video, live or delayed, to a regional or statewide cable sports channel (they’re starved for content)…maybe a knowledgeable literate fan could be a columnist covering local women’s college hockey for free for the local paper which otherwise never covers the sport (or a local business could take out a sports page ad and run that columnist’s text)….
No one attends an event if they know nothing about it; heck, many of us learned to watch hockey by watching hours of kids at practices and games. I bet any parent of a college hockey player has seen more youth games than games at any pro level.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
a certain cigarette sponsored women' tennis, it turned out to be good for the cigarette, good for pro women's tennis, maybe not so good for women in general (at least the ones who couldn't resist the call of the siren)
if you wonder how exciting womens pro tennis was back in the early 80's, in a word, monotonous, unless you like to watch people volley back and forth without moving
what sport has been an instant success?
even women's hoops who had the support of the NBA took some time, and hoops is a much more popular sport
Has anybody ever answered the question of why people watch sports?
you can't really answer this threads question unless you know the answer to that.
a certain cigarette sponsored women' tennis, it turned out to be good for the cigarette, good for pro women's tennis, maybe not so good for women in general (at least the ones who couldn't resist the call of the siren)
if you wonder how exciting womens pro tennis was back in the early 80's, in a word, monotonous, unless you like to watch people volley back and forth without moving
what sport has been an instant success?
even women's hoops who had the support of the NBA took some time, and hoops is a much more popular sport
Has anybody ever answered the question of why people watch sports?
you can't really answer this threads question unless you know the answer to that.
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Eeyore, just for accuracy sake, the tennis season is actually 11 months....each player is responsible for the points they achieve from one year to the next. There are differing levels of tournaments that are mandatory, like the 4 majors, but many others....mixed in with those mandatory tournaments, are ones that the respective player thinks they have a better chance of winning dependent on the field playing that year......add in Fed/Davis Cup competition......and then throw in the player taking a needed break where they think it takes the least toll......I started following the women's tour about 2 years ago more seriously, and still haven't figured it all out. Like any sport, there are minor leagues, like in golf, where the amateurs break in, and work their way up to the big league......
Probably way too much info than you wanted but the point is as athletes there are many ways too make serious cash, but the majority of fans see the 4 majors on ESPN now and that's it! Like Timothy A and WiscDC said, women's hockey is a subset of a subset, 3 times down......look at The NWSL, the third try for a women's soccer league, whose games are broadcast online via YouTube, and usually are sell outs in smaller venues, is slowly building its core audience.....hopefully for us all, with time, and using online viewing, the women's hockey game will increase....lets be honest, UNH, Brown, Northeastern, Harvard, Providence all had women's teams playing full seasons 40 years ago.......no game was streamed or even covered by their own school paper! Like that cigarette ad used to say ,pokechecker, " You've come a long way Baby"
Eeyore, just for accuracy sake, the tennis season is actually 11 months....each player is responsible for the points they achieve from one year to the next. There are differing levels of tournaments that are mandatory, like the 4 majors, but many others....mixed in with those mandatory tournaments, are ones that the respective player thinks they have a better chance of winning dependent on the field playing that year......add in Fed/Davis Cup competition......and then throw in the player taking a needed break where they think it takes the least toll......I started following the women's tour about 2 years ago more seriously, and still haven't figured it all out. Like any sport, there are minor leagues, like in golf, where the amateurs break in, and work their way up to the big league......
Probably way too much info than you wanted but the point is as athletes there are many ways too make serious cash, but the majority of fans see the 4 majors on ESPN now and that's it! Like Timothy A and WiscDC said, women's hockey is a subset of a subset, 3 times down......look at The NWSL, the third try for a women's soccer league, whose games are broadcast online via YouTube, and usually are sell outs in smaller venues, is slowly building its core audience.....hopefully for us all, with time, and using online viewing, the women's hockey game will increase....lets be honest, UNH, Brown, Northeastern, Harvard, Providence all had women's teams playing full seasons 40 years ago.......no game was streamed or even covered by their own school paper! Like that cigarette ad used to say ,pokechecker, " You've come a long way Baby"
giwan
Really??!!
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
A true sports fan watches for the competition and what personal interest one has in that sport and/or team.
A true sports fan watches for the competition and what personal interest one has in that sport and/or team.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
Great question pokey....the even bigger question is why do people like what they like in regards to anything? Some things are tradition/taught/learned...My Dad's dad was a Ford guy, my dad is a Ford guy, I am a Ford guy, my sons are Ford guys. Other things are not, there is an inexplicable force drawing you to an interest. My Dad's dad never saw a hockey game, my Dad has watched hockey and would rather watch paint dry slowly, I see hockey and I am compelled by an internal inexplicable force to LOVE it, my sons and daughter love it as well. In the end, why as why? Just enjoy the ride.
Great question pokey....the even bigger question is why do people like what they like in regards to anything? Some things are tradition/taught/learned...My Dad's dad was a Ford guy, my dad is a Ford guy, I am a Ford guy, my sons are Ford guys. Other things are not, there is an inexplicable force drawing you to an interest. My Dad's dad never saw a hockey game, my Dad has watched hockey and would rather watch paint dry slowly, I see hockey and I am compelled by an internal inexplicable force to LOVE it, my sons and daughter love it as well. In the end, why as why? Just enjoy the ride.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
today, that only accounts for a fraction of the fans IMO
in fact maybe you've hit upon it, why fans watch this sport, and why there are so few
but looking at the big three, it seems to me most "fans" are there for the social event, they are a member of the herd, their team's success, or failure, defines who they are (at least in their mind), what else could explain buying an expensive ugly shirt, and wearing it, with their hero's name on it?
today, that only accounts for a fraction of the fans IMO
in fact maybe you've hit upon it, why fans watch this sport, and why there are so few
but looking at the big three, it seems to me most "fans" are there for the social event, they are a member of the herd, their team's success, or failure, defines who they are (at least in their mind), what else could explain buying an expensive ugly shirt, and wearing it, with their hero's name on it?
gojackets
New member
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
I would say Women's college basketball isn't really that much better than hockey. Obviously they get more attention, draw bigger crowds, and get their tournament televised. But how many people actually watch it? Until they can find a cure for the UCONN problem, women's basketball isn't going to do well. There was no one that could even compete with UCONN this year and the national championship game was over by half time.
If you do watch the women's tournament most of the tournament games have fairly empty arenas, compared to the men's which are almost always sold out.
I would say Women's college basketball isn't really that much better than hockey. Obviously they get more attention, draw bigger crowds, and get their tournament televised. But how many people actually watch it? Until they can find a cure for the UCONN problem, women's basketball isn't going to do well. There was no one that could even compete with UCONN this year and the national championship game was over by half time.
If you do watch the women's tournament most of the tournament games have fairly empty arenas, compared to the men's which are almost always sold out.
giwan
Really??!!
Re: Why Isn't Women's Hockey More Popular?
UCONN is not a problem, they make the sport more relevant and talked about. Chances are the women's tourney is only televised in a deal to show the men's tourney but I do not know that as fact.
Only the later rounds of the men's bball tourney are sold out, the early rounds are mostly empty. This applies to the college money maker of football during their bowl season as lower bowls for the most part are empty and frankly many teams lose money on their bowl trips.
UCONN is not a problem, they make the sport more relevant and talked about. Chances are the women's tourney is only televised in a deal to show the men's tourney but I do not know that as fact.
Only the later rounds of the men's bball tourney are sold out, the early rounds are mostly empty. This applies to the college money maker of football during their bowl season as lower bowls for the most part are empty and frankly many teams lose money on their bowl trips.