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The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
- Thread starter FreshFish
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
How many of us played "Risk" as kids?
Eerie how it seems to be playing out in real life these days.
I saw a fascinating article somewhere about how risky Putin's strategy might be....for Putin.
Tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese work in Siberia. Putin himself has now given China the pretext to move troops into Siberia to protect the well-being of its citizens......
How many of us played "Risk" as kids?
Eerie how it seems to be playing out in real life these days.
I saw a fascinating article somewhere about how risky Putin's strategy might be....for Putin.
Tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese work in Siberia. Putin himself has now given China the pretext to move troops into Siberia to protect the well-being of its citizens......
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
It seems like Putin has already effectively annexed the Crimea. He will threaten the rest of eastern Ukraine too, and then allow himself to be "dissuaded" from moving any further, and our modern-day appeasement movement will be so relieved that they will let him keep Crimea.
Hey, why not? He already tried it before, in Georgia, several years ago, and it worked then! Why not now?
It seems like Putin has already effectively annexed the Crimea. He will threaten the rest of eastern Ukraine too, and then allow himself to be "dissuaded" from moving any further, and our modern-day appeasement movement will be so relieved that they will let him keep Crimea.
Hey, why not? He already tried it before, in Georgia, several years ago, and it worked then! Why not now?
JF_Gophers
2147483647
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
why should we care about the Ukraine? also why are we giving them a billion dollars that we dont have?
we need to stay home for awhile and let someone else play world police.
why should we care about the Ukraine? also why are we giving them a billion dollars that we dont have?
we need to stay home for awhile and let someone else play world police.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
I don't mind giving them financial aid but that's about as far as I'm willing to go beyond sanctioning the Russian regime. Ukraine could have joined NATO over the last 20 years but didn't. They've also gone back and forth between electing Russian sympathizers vs Western leaners. They have their own military. I'd suggest they use it.
Last time neoconartists tried to build somebody up as an unstoppable boogeyman bent on regional dominance it was Saddam Hussein, and we all know how that turned out.
I don't mind giving them financial aid but that's about as far as I'm willing to go beyond sanctioning the Russian regime. Ukraine could have joined NATO over the last 20 years but didn't. They've also gone back and forth between electing Russian sympathizers vs Western leaners. They have their own military. I'd suggest they use it.
Last time neoconartists tried to build somebody up as an unstoppable boogeyman bent on regional dominance it was Saddam Hussein, and we all know how that turned out.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Something to keep in mind when thinking about the impact of throwing a few billion around here and there.
If the average household in the US makes $65,000 (pretty close to correct based on Wiki - median is $50K, but average is dragged upward by the 1%), and they pay on average 15% in federal income taxes, then a billion dollars are the annual taxes paid by approximately 100,000 households.
Something to keep in mind when thinking about the impact of throwing a few billion around here and there.
JF_Gophers
2147483647
oh then lets just pay off all our countries debts this week too since we have so many free billions to hand out.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
I sure hope you are right in your assessment and it turns out that it doesn't belong here after all!
My fear is that either we are seeing the start of Cold War II or World War III unfolding in slow motion....gradually annexing other countries' territory under the pretext of protecting one's own citizens living there?
We had the Anschluss in Austria in March 1938, the annexation of Sudetenland in September 1938....the historical parallels are a bit scary. A dictator always finds it easier to prop up the regime at home by focusing attention abroad, rallying nationalist fervor to the cause.
Putin's hold on power is shaky because he depends upon the cash flow generated by high oil prices to prop up an otherwise dysfunctional economy.
We don't care that he annexed part of Georgia....we don't care when he annexes the Crimea....we won't care when he next annexes part of another country.....nor the one after that.....will we eventually care?
There are plenty of robust responses we could use now that don't involve billion-dollar loans nor military force. Putin is vulnerable and we can strike him where it really hurts. There are plenty of excellent articles that go into details.
I sure hope you are right in your assessment and it turns out that it doesn't belong here after all!
My fear is that either we are seeing the start of Cold War II or World War III unfolding in slow motion....gradually annexing other countries' territory under the pretext of protecting one's own citizens living there?
We had the Anschluss in Austria in March 1938, the annexation of Sudetenland in September 1938....the historical parallels are a bit scary. A dictator always finds it easier to prop up the regime at home by focusing attention abroad, rallying nationalist fervor to the cause.
Putin's hold on power is shaky because he depends upon the cash flow generated by high oil prices to prop up an otherwise dysfunctional economy.
We don't care that he annexed part of Georgia....we don't care when he annexes the Crimea....we won't care when he next annexes part of another country.....nor the one after that.....will we eventually care?
There are plenty of robust responses we could use now that don't involve billion-dollar loans nor military force. Putin is vulnerable and we can strike him where it really hurts. There are plenty of excellent articles that go into details.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Ahhhh...the classic "He's the NEXT HITLER!!!!!!" argument.
If European counties are worried about Russian influence, join NATO.
It needs to be a similar situation to what's happening in Asia. Countries such as Myanmar and Vietnam have been getting a lot more cozy with the US lately as they worry about Chinese influence in their territorial waters. Smart move on their part, and one any concerned former Soviet republics ought to emulate (and in the Baltic states case, already have).
Ahhhh...the classic "He's the NEXT HITLER!!!!!!" argument.
If European counties are worried about Russian influence, join NATO.
It needs to be a similar situation to what's happening in Asia. Countries such as Myanmar and Vietnam have been getting a lot more cozy with the US lately as they worry about Chinese influence in their territorial waters. Smart move on their part, and one any concerned former Soviet republics ought to emulate (and in the Baltic states case, already have).
whooosh.
My point was that a billion is a BIG number, not a small one. When increasing spending by a billion dollars, you're effectively asking 100,000 US households to put in an extra year of labor to pay for it. That's an additional 2 million worker-hours that the economy has to provide, so we SHOULDN'T just be throwing around a billion here and there down random foreign aid black holes. A billion represents a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears from American workers - and for what, exactly, in this situation?
Ukraine doomed themselves by not joining NATO during the good years, so we're not going to defend them in the bad ones. If Putin wants Ukraine, or even just the eastern half, there's not a darn thing we can, will, or should do about it, so why are we even wasting one billion on this fool's errand?
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St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
My point is that we see a confrontation between two separate nations, both with arguing through their elected bodies. Why does that get this situation included in a war on terror thread?
My point is that we see a confrontation between two separate nations, both with arguing through their elected bodies. Why does that get this situation included in a war on terror thread?
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
What part of "there are plenty of ways to stand up to Putin that don't involve loan guarantees and don't involve military force" is so hard for you to understand?
You do have room for that under your umbrella, don't you Neville?
What part of "there are plenty of ways to stand up to Putin that don't involve loan guarantees and don't involve military force" is so hard for you to understand?
You do have room for that under your umbrella, don't you Neville?
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Vladimir "visions of empire" Putin: "Let us do what we want or we will go to war."
i.e., "give us what we want or we will unleash violence against you."
or is this merely a semantic quibble? "yeah he's threatening war, but so what, since he leads a country, it cannot be terrorism?"
Vladimir "visions of empire" Putin: "Let us do what we want or we will go to war."
i.e., "give us what we want or we will unleash violence against you."
or is this merely a semantic quibble? "yeah he's threatening war, but so what, since he leads a country, it cannot be terrorism?"
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Are you and Opie dating? You're starting to use some of his moldy expressions that were popular 70 years ago so I was just wondering....
But I'll play along! What, aside from military action and loans, would you have the US do? Beyond sanctions which are already being worked on, we're all ears.
What part of "there are plenty of ways to stand up to Putin that don't involve loan guarantees and don't involve military force" is so hard for you to understand?
You do have room for that under your umbrella, don't you Neville?
Are you and Opie dating? You're starting to use some of his moldy expressions that were popular 70 years ago so I was just wondering....
But I'll play along! What, aside from military action and loans, would you have the US do? Beyond sanctions which are already being worked on, we're all ears.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
First of all, I wasn't aware Putin was a terrorist. But since he's apparently the next Hitler, I guess he is.
Second of all, I want to see every Congress critter who just voted to give the Ukraine a billion dollars try to demagogue on the national debt come election time. I hope their constituents throw this vote in their face.
First of all, I wasn't aware Putin was a terrorist. But since he's apparently the next Hitler, I guess he is.
Second of all, I want to see every Congress critter who just voted to give the Ukraine a billion dollars try to demagogue on the national debt come election time. I hope their constituents throw this vote in their face.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Did Congre$$ authorize or appropriate $1B? In Fed Gov Speak, there is a difference. Authorize means you can spend it - when you get the money. Appropriate means actually giving the money.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Oh, really?
Just ask a Russian journalist for his/her opinion.
Oh, wait. You can't!
The list of journalists killed under Putin is too long to fit here; it exceeds the limit of 10,000 characters.
19 in 2000
12 in 2001
23 in 2002
12 in 2003
13 in 2004
6 in 2005
14 in 2006
5 in 2007
3 in 2008
22 during the Medved Presidency
One more under Putin in 2012
Several of the ones in the first set were killed in Chechnya or were "incident not confirmed" but I didn't go through to cull them out.
I guess you are right and I am wrong, Putin is just a genial, gentle soul who does nothing wrong and is woefully misunderstood by people like me, eh?
I mean, who would ever expect the former head of the KGB to engage in targeted assassination. After all, didn't George Bush assure us he "looked into Putin's soul" and liked what he saw there? and you have so much respect for GWB's good judgment, right?
How far does your sycophancy extend, anyway?
Oh, really?
Just ask a Russian journalist for his/her opinion.
Oh, wait. You can't!
The list of journalists killed under Putin is too long to fit here; it exceeds the limit of 10,000 characters.
19 in 2000
12 in 2001
23 in 2002
12 in 2003
13 in 2004
6 in 2005
14 in 2006
5 in 2007
3 in 2008
22 during the Medved Presidency
One more under Putin in 2012
Several of the ones in the first set were killed in Chechnya or were "incident not confirmed" but I didn't go through to cull them out.
I guess you are right and I am wrong, Putin is just a genial, gentle soul who does nothing wrong and is woefully misunderstood by people like me, eh?
I mean, who would ever expect the former head of the KGB to engage in targeted assassination. After all, didn't George Bush assure us he "looked into Putin's soul" and liked what he saw there? and you have so much respect for GWB's good judgment, right?
How far does your sycophancy extend, anyway?
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