I'm surprised that four of the top 6 teams in the latest poll are located in Minnesota. Must be some kind of a record for any one state. 
https://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/
https://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/
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Rankings and 'The State of Hockey'
- Thread starter D2D
- Start date
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Polls... Meh. Only two of Minnesota's teams deserve to be Top 6 at this point - Minnesota and Mankato. Minnesota - zero debate and Mankato with only one loss to Tech on the road. Duluth and SCSU are just riding on their name and the NCHC's coat tails. Regardless of who you played, if you have three losses already you're not deserving of a top 6 spot. Two of SCSU's losses were to unranked teams and they barely got by CC in overtime. That's not a Top 6 resume if you're voting based on what they've shown so far this year. They might be there at the end of the year, but polls always have been and always will be nothing more than "name recognition" voting. That's why most years Ivy league schools with no games played a month into the season are "Top 10", Michigan with FIVE losses is #8 in the current poll, Denver with SIX losses in only TEN games at #16 and LSSU with no losses can barely crack the Top 20.
Polls are similar to NCHC Commish Fenton suggesting that this year's tourney field should be picked based on past years' success. Last I checked, past years teams were not playing in this year's tourney so their results are irrelevant. Fenton needs to get out of the pod and get some fresh air...
Now all that being said... if four teams from any state had all earned even Top 10 rankings in the poll, yes, that would be impressive. Given that most states don't even have enough teams to pull this off, it would be a pretty rare event. Of the top of my head are there any states other than CT, MA, MI, MN and NY that even have four D-I teams currently? Out of that group, really only MA, MI, MN could pull it off. Even for as many teams as NY has, the ECAC and AH would never get enough respect from the media to gather the necessary votes, even if the teams were truly deserving. Sad, but true.
Polls are similar to NCHC Commish Fenton suggesting that this year's tourney field should be picked based on past years' success. Last I checked, past years teams were not playing in this year's tourney so their results are irrelevant. Fenton needs to get out of the pod and get some fresh air...
Now all that being said... if four teams from any state had all earned even Top 10 rankings in the poll, yes, that would be impressive. Given that most states don't even have enough teams to pull this off, it would be a pretty rare event. Of the top of my head are there any states other than CT, MA, MI, MN and NY that even have four D-I teams currently? Out of that group, really only MA, MI, MN could pull it off. Even for as many teams as NY has, the ECAC and AH would never get enough respect from the media to gather the necessary votes, even if the teams were truly deserving. Sad, but true.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Those are the only 5 states with at least 4 teams.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
I'm surprised that four of the top 6 teams in the latest poll are located in Minnesota. Must be some kind of a record for any one state.
https://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/
Perhaps a tie? In 1991-1992, Michigan had 4 teams reach the Quarterfinals of the NCAA Tournament (Michigan, Northern Michigan, LSSU, and Michigan State), 3 of which (Michigan (who beat Northern in the QFs), LSSU, and MSU) advanced to the Final Four, and obviously, LSSU won the national title. I'm not sure what the polling showed, but at the very least 4 of the top 8 teams based on NCAA Tournament results were from the state of Michigan.
Very impressive, and good to know.
I'm surprised that four of the top 6 teams in the latest poll are located in Minnesota. Must be some kind of a record for any one state.
https://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/
It was the same last week. I'm confused why people are just calling it out now.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
While I agree with the sentiment that polls are meaningless, particularly those in December, I have no problem with SCSU ranked where they are. I have been very impressed with how the Huskies have played, and it would not surprise me in the least if this wound up being their year.
As for JohnsonsJerseys, the poster simply has a problem with the NCHC, which is odd given that his team (Michigan Tech) might be the program with the most conference affiliation changes in the history of our sport.
Anyone who has watched UMD play this year and believes they are ranked in the top 6 because they are riding someone's coattails is....blind.
SCSU is also good (extremely fast) although I wouldn't put them in the same category as UMD as of yet. But they are certainly worthy of a top 10 ranking.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Yeah, I think most of the SCSU team is pretty good, with a single, inconsistent hole. However, with that said, I still wanted to bait a hook. : )
John J. MacInnes
Coach Emeritus
Just so we're clear, the school with the most conference changes would be NMU. Originally joining in the CCHA in 1977, they switched to the WCHA in 1984, back to the CCHA in 1997, back to the WCHA in 2013, and will return to the CCHA in 2021. Tech has switched twice to date, which is just as many times as Michigan State and Michigan. That's also one less than Notre Dame, who would hold the mark for playing in the most different leagues (WCHA, CCHA, Hockey East, and the Big Ten).
Usually FS23 is much better with history. He gets a pass this time.
Last edited:
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Michigan Tech Conference History:
Independent - 1919-1951
MCHL - 1951-1953
WIHL - 1953-1958
Independent - 1958-1959
WCHA - 1959-1981
CCHA - 1981-1984
WCHA - 1984-2021
CCHA - 2021-??
That's a lot of changes.
Independent - 1919-1951
MCHL - 1951-1953
WIHL - 1953-1958
Independent - 1958-1959
WCHA - 1959-1981
CCHA - 1981-1984
WCHA - 1984-2021
CCHA - 2021-??
That's a lot of changes.
John J. MacInnes
Coach Emeritus
I guess it would look like that, for the uneducated. The MCHL and WIHL were the previous names of the same league that became the WCHA. The independent year in 58-59 came about because of a dispute over recruiting that made everyone an independent that season.
I think if you do even the most basic research, you'd see that North Dakota did exactly the same thing.
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Well that's a creative view of history. Almost like saying the formation of the NCHC wasn't entirely a money grab and a knee-jerk reaction to the BigTen forming a hockey conference...
Michigan Tech has been a member of the WCHA longer than almost half of the men's division I hockey programs have existed. Here's a more accurate way of representing Michigan Tech's path if you know the history of college hockey and the WCHA:
32 Years - Independent
30 Years - "WCHA" Founded as the MCHL which became the WIHL which then ceased to exist for the 1958-59 season and reformed the following year under the WCHA name.
3 Years - CCHA
37 Years - WCHA
So three consecutive decades as an independent, then a founder and member for 67 of the WCHA's 70 years of existence. Yeah, that's a "lot" of changes. Sorry if I clouded this discussion with facts... Let's check back on this topic when Sue has as much history as Michigan Tech and see how many conferences they've disrupted by then to keep themselves happy. I'm sure the current NCHC programs will grow tired of their new doormats and will have to reshuffle the membership for their own benefit soon enough. Certain "like minded" hockey fans out West have selective memory about this but if it were not for the NCHC, three D-I programs wouldn't currently be on the brink of collapse and the CCHA never would have gone away in the first place. Anyway, I have to get back to grinding my axes now. Sounds like from some of the previous posts a few of them are getting dull from overuse...
Happy New Year
EDIT: I guess John J. MacInnes got up early than me on New Years Day and beat me to the book of facts.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Uneducated? Hahaha. You Tech fans are a hoot. My statement was that Michigan Tech might be the program with the most conference affiliation changes in the history of our sport. They've changed conference affiliations 7 times. What other program has more?
John J. MacInnes
Coach Emeritus
You're usually a good guy on here so I don't want to belabor this. But when the conference changes names, that's not changing conferences. You're playing the same teams under a new masthead.
Maybe the better way to look at it is how many different teams you could list as a conference opponent in your history. In that metric it's far and away that Notre Dame would be on top, and they only needed 40 years to do it.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
I can understand you not counting the change from the MCHL to the WIHL. That was largely just a change in the name of the conference. However, the disbanding of the WIHL in 1958 was due to Michigan Tech (as well as Minnesota and Michigan) leaving the conference due to recruiting differences. It was a decision Tech made because they thought it would be in their best interest. After the 1958-1959 season (where they played as independents), Michigan Tech (as well as Minnesota and Michigan) decided that playing in a conference was more important than the recruiting differences, and then helped start up the WCHA. Tech was in the WCHA for a few decades before deciding to move to the CCHA, again for its own perceived interests (travel considerations). They were in that conference for a couple seasons, before packing up and going back to the WCHA, again for its own perceived interests. Now, after this season Tech is leaving the WCHA to reform the CCHA, again for its own perceived interests (largely getting rid of the Alaska schools and Huntsville). So, if you want to take out the MCHL to WIHL change (which is fair and understandable, but technically incorrect), Tech still has 6 conference affiliation changes. By my count, Notre Dame has also made 6 such changes. I can understand you wanting to use a different metric to try to get a different result, but I wasn't, you knew that I wasn't, yet you still insulted me by trying to portray my point as "uneducated" or somehow inaccurate. So I'll ask again, what other program has more conference affiliation changes than Michigan Tech?
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
So far there has been very little logic in this discussion, but by your logic, all NHL teams "changed conferences" for the 1993-94 season simply because the conference names were changed. I doubt anyone would agree with that statement.
And as for "its own perceived interests (largely getting rid of the Alaska schools and Huntsville)" that sounds a whole lot like the NCHC motto from day one. Don't you know, all us poow whittle Midwest WCHA teams are flat broke. We go deeper into debt every time our skates touch the ice. We can barely afford the gas budget for our "bus league." We've asked the federal government for a $2.3T bail-out so we can keep playing. We can't afford plane tickets to go to AK. We siphon gas out of cop cars at rest areas to make it to the next game. We make fans throw pucks back on the ice that go in the crowd because we can't spend the extra 95 cents for a second game puck. We can't support those three programs any longer because we're already taping broken wooden Christian sticks from the 1980s back together to finish our current seasons. We get hand-me-down equipment from the District-5 Ducks. WCHA teams only make the NCAA tourney if the Panthers get the measles. Emilio Estevez chose going to prison over doing community service as a volunteer coach in the WCHA. How about the programs who feel they have all the money step up and do something for the three UA- programs? That's why the NCHC teams had to leave the WCHA because the majority of the membership actually wanted to make sure all the teams survived by revenue sharing. UND wanted no part of that plan and was in the minority so they packed up and left.
How about the NCHC merge with the WCHA next year and show how much they are not in it for their own perceived interests. Here's the chance to show all of college hockey (and especially me) we had the NCHC pegged all wrong from the start. I'm sure the three UA- schools would be happy to accept the invite. Give them a home so they don't have to change conferences every 5 years and become the next Michigan Tech of college hockey that apparently bounces from conference to conference every couple years. You can pick up Long Island as your fourth new addition to keep the conference at an even number and increase your "National" footprint at the same time. No need to have ASU join because they're happy to play their entire schedule on the road. Because the NCHC wasn't a money grab, it was formed to do what's best for college hockey... right? Talk about the pot calling the puck black when talking about the Huskies history... Anyway, we can pick this discussion up again when UND becomes a more "stable" program not in it simply for their own self-interests and has played 60+ years in one conference.
PS - Getting back to the original topic and the value of polls... Denver now with SEVEN losses in 12 games this season but still a Top 20 team... right. I wish I could fail almost 60% of the time and be labeled as one of the best. I wouldn't have to spend so much time on writing ironic, critical post like this. I could just put up an assortment of emoji faces, call other posters names, type in ALL BOLDED CAPS IN EVERY MESSAGE!!!!!!!! to show all my emotion, use the Oxford Comma with no regard for the AP style guide and then call it a day as one of the "Top 20" posters on USCHO. That would be the life...
And as for "its own perceived interests (largely getting rid of the Alaska schools and Huntsville)" that sounds a whole lot like the NCHC motto from day one. Don't you know, all us poow whittle Midwest WCHA teams are flat broke. We go deeper into debt every time our skates touch the ice. We can barely afford the gas budget for our "bus league." We've asked the federal government for a $2.3T bail-out so we can keep playing. We can't afford plane tickets to go to AK. We siphon gas out of cop cars at rest areas to make it to the next game. We make fans throw pucks back on the ice that go in the crowd because we can't spend the extra 95 cents for a second game puck. We can't support those three programs any longer because we're already taping broken wooden Christian sticks from the 1980s back together to finish our current seasons. We get hand-me-down equipment from the District-5 Ducks. WCHA teams only make the NCAA tourney if the Panthers get the measles. Emilio Estevez chose going to prison over doing community service as a volunteer coach in the WCHA. How about the programs who feel they have all the money step up and do something for the three UA- programs? That's why the NCHC teams had to leave the WCHA because the majority of the membership actually wanted to make sure all the teams survived by revenue sharing. UND wanted no part of that plan and was in the minority so they packed up and left.
How about the NCHC merge with the WCHA next year and show how much they are not in it for their own perceived interests. Here's the chance to show all of college hockey (and especially me) we had the NCHC pegged all wrong from the start. I'm sure the three UA- schools would be happy to accept the invite. Give them a home so they don't have to change conferences every 5 years and become the next Michigan Tech of college hockey that apparently bounces from conference to conference every couple years. You can pick up Long Island as your fourth new addition to keep the conference at an even number and increase your "National" footprint at the same time. No need to have ASU join because they're happy to play their entire schedule on the road. Because the NCHC wasn't a money grab, it was formed to do what's best for college hockey... right? Talk about the pot calling the puck black when talking about the Huskies history... Anyway, we can pick this discussion up again when UND becomes a more "stable" program not in it simply for their own self-interests and has played 60+ years in one conference.
PS - Getting back to the original topic and the value of polls... Denver now with SEVEN losses in 12 games this season but still a Top 20 team... right. I wish I could fail almost 60% of the time and be labeled as one of the best. I wouldn't have to spend so much time on writing ironic, critical post like this. I could just put up an assortment of emoji faces, call other posters names, type in ALL BOLDED CAPS IN EVERY MESSAGE!!!!!!!! to show all my emotion, use the Oxford Comma with no regard for the AP style guide and then call it a day as one of the "Top 20" posters on USCHO. That would be the life...
FredsDeadFriend
New member
I'm surprised that four of the top 6 teams in the latest poll are located in Minnesota. Must be some kind of a record for any one state.
https://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/
UMD has been very successful the last few years, including a couple Natl Titles, and SCSU, despite it's lack of success in the post season, has done quite well in the regular season, and Mn St-Mankato has also had a lot of recent success in the regular seasons of the past couple of years. All that was needed for this situation, 4 of the Top 6 teams all being from Minnesota, was the Gopher's to finally get back to what they had been doing for much of college hockey's history, being one of the best teams in the country. That seems to have happened this year.
But the popular polls are meaningless as only the PWR counts. This changes things significantly for the 5th Minnesota team, Bemidji St, as they were ranked 4th in the PWR going into the weekend, and SCSU and UMD as they both still remain ranked among the Top 17 teams in the PWR, but come tourney time, a team might need to finish among the Top 13 or 14 in the PWR if they don't win their conference tourney's. Having 5 Minnesota based teams all within striking distance of making the NCAA tournament increases the chances of 4 of them making it into the Final 8, but knowing how the NCAA hockey selection committee does their seeding, it's likely all 5, or at least 4 of the 5, IF they get in to the tourney, get put together in the same regions. So best case scenario, only 3 Minnesota based teams, but more likely 2, will make it to the Frozen Four. Only way that 4 could all make it to the Frozen Four, is if they finish #1-#4 in the PWR.
Now what I don't see anyone talking about, is how this season is exposing just how flawed the PWR rating system is. Right now, going into the weekend, 3 of the Top 4 ranked teams are all from the WCHA, and 4 of the Top 6. How on earth does the WCHA, the NEW version of it, all of a sudden just magically transform into the greatest conference ever to exist? 4 of the Top 6??? Give me a fricking break. It's an obvious flaw of the RPI/PWR rating system. Anyone ever wonder why NCAA BB Selection committee dumped the RPI??? It's a ridiculous and seriously flawed rating system, always has been, and MOST legit sports fans have known and acknowledged this. But diehard college hockey fans apparently are too arrogant and elitist and stubborn to ever admit that their bullsh1t PWR system is one of the worst rating systems ever. It's only better than the bullsh1t RPI rating system it's almost completely dependent upon.
Iwearpurple
Registered User
You do know that the pairwise can't be used this year, don't you