Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

[Clueless_Hockey_Dad]

I am trying to get a sense of how some Div 1 Programs work and their respective coaches' approach to player retention and development as a special interest. Two quick examples:

Brown - Sena Hanson was last year's top scorer and honorable mention ivy selection. Presumably the team's strongest player. However, she does not seem to be on the roster for this year along with at least one other non-graduating player. Side note: this year's small freshman class also does not include a previous commit from Western Canada.

Dartmouth - Chloe Puddifant seemed to be their top recruit in last year's freshman class. She is missing from this year's roster.

and a more general question:

I noticed schools often have 5-6 player incoming recruiting classes but senior classes seem winnowed down to 3-4 players. Do others here see same? If so, would you say this is due to normal attrition (injuries, focus on academics) or it is by design?

Your thoughts and experiences are highly appreciated...

Clueless

 

[pucko]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

For a Clueless Hockey Dad, you sure seem to know a lot that other people may not know.

Brown had a new coach last year so you can probably assume that there was a clash of coaching/player style with the two players not on the roster this year. My guess is that the Freshmen class comes from the previous coach as well as most new coaches do not get to bring in their own recruits until year three. So again, either the new coach let the previous commit go, or the previous commit decided to play somewhere else.

Dartmouth is also a relatively new(ish) coach so either Puddifant was not coach's recruit or there was another reason why she's not on the roster. Could be grades, could be something else.

There's no direct answer as to why classes come in big and finish small. For some players, they weren't happy with their ice time so they quit or transferred, maybe school or something in their life changed directions, etc. With the recruiting rules swinging back to coaches only being able to talk to older kids, hopefully this will help in attrition as players can make more informed decisions. The only unpredictable element is that the coach that recruited you in may not be the coach you play for.

 

[ZedLeppelin]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

Injuries are certainly a factor by the time a class reaches their senior season. Penn State has three seniors (two already off the roster) who are finished due to injuries. As pucko said, there are many other factors along the way, too - transfers, change of plans for commits, academic reasons, player/coach incompatibility, etc.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

At UW, the # of players in classes typically stay stable, unless you are elite and end up playing for an Olympic team, so they end up redshirting a year. They have had some transfers in lately, the only players dropping are usually the 4th goalie type. I can't recall the last time a D or F left the program for other than medical reasons. UW seems to be very committed to their players once they hit Madison.

 

[Rightnut]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

You mention two Ivy League schools. For Ivies, many, if not most players, are paying some portion of their tuition and used hockey to get admission. If they are not playing a lot or just not that into it, they quit but stay at the school, unlike at scholarship schools where a player is basically being paid to play and will stick it out even if not happy but will generally leave if they don’t have the scholarship. I have never seen any stats but I would venture a guess that attrition is higher at Ivies but retention at the school of players who quit is also much higher.

 

[Clueless_Hockey_Dad]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

Thank you Rightnut, Timothy A, ZedLeppelin and Pucko for your comments. Helps to clarify the picture. The bit on the potential higher attrition but higher retention makes a lot of sense too.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

You mention two Ivy League schools. For Ivies, many, if not most players, are paying some portion of their tuition and used hockey to get admission. If they are not playing a lot or just not that into it, they quit but stay at the school, unlike at scholarship schools where a player is basically being paid to play and will stick it out even if not happy but will generally leave if they don’t have the scholarship. I have never seen any stats but I would venture a guess that attrition is higher at Ivies but retention at the school of players who quit is also much higher.

Great insight. I always forget that all the schools don't play by the same rules on the $$$ front, which makes no sense to me. How does Hockey East work?

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

Great insight. I always forget that all the schools don't play by the same rules on the $$$ front, which makes no sense to me. How does Hockey East work?

Harvard endowment = over 50 Billion
Yale 30 Billion
Princeton 25 Billion

Boston College 2 Billion
Boston University 2 Billion

Clarkson under 200 million

Minnesota just under 4 Billion
Wisconsin 3 Billion
Ohio State 5 Billion (does not include cash under the table)
Penn State 4 Billion

Mercyhurst 30 Million
St Cloud 30 Million
Mankato 50 Million
Bemidji 23 million

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

Harvard endowment = over 50 Billion
Yale 30 Billion
Princeton 25 Billion

Boston College 2 Billion
Boston University 2 Billion

Clarkson under 200 million

Minnesota just under 4 Billion
Wisconsin 3 Billion
Ohio State 5 Billion (does not include cash under the table)
Penn State 4 Billion

Mercyhurst 30 Million
St Cloud 30 Million
Mankato 50 Million
Bemidji 23 million

So the ECAC gals SHOULD be getting full schollies then.....

 

[Reddington]

So the ECAC gals SHOULD be getting full schollies then.....

Hockey is like horseracing, everyone comes home from the track a winner. From deluding yourself about how much you paid for prep school, to saying you have a full ride when you don't. I'd guess 3/4 do and 1/4 is on a partial. Can you imagine paying for prep school for three years and then playing d 3?

Most schools are fully funded now. As recent as 5 years ago a number of schools were at 14-16 scholarships.

FYI if both parents have over 150,000 in combined income you won't get a dime from Ivies.

If you are alluding to Wisconsin which is well known for you pay for two, we will pay for two, I think it is a lot better than that.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

FYI if both parents have over 150,000 in combined income you won't get a dime from Ivies.

On the flip side of that if your family income is under $65K, you pay nothing, and if it’s between that and $150K you receive something. Here is what was claimed about Harvard 6 months ago:
70% of students receive aid, the average aid is $53K Harvard claims that of the students who receive aid, they pay no more than students at a state school

Wisconsin which is well known for you pay for two, we will pay for two,

Are you referring to hockey or all sports except football and hoops?
WI is an FBS school, and per rule, those players who receive a schollie receive a full ride.
It would be my guess every state school is a you pay for two, we pay for two, there is ample other aid to cover the other half, so in effect, they are getting a full ride

it's a bit disingenuous, kind of like the Ivies saying they don't give athletic scholarships

 

[arenalife]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

On the flip side of that if your family income is under $65K, you pay nothing, and if it’s between that and $150K you receive something. Here is what was claimed about Harvard 6 months ago:
70% of students receive aid, the average aid is $53K Harvard claims that of the students who receive aid, they pay no more than students at a state school




Are you referring to hockey or all sports except football and hoops?
WI is an FBS school, and per rule, those players who receive a schollie receive a full ride.
It would be my guess every state school is a you pay for two, we pay for two, there is ample other aid to cover the other half, so in effect, they are getting a full ride

it's a bit disingenuous, kind of like the Ivies saying they don't give athletic scholarships

Student loans are included in the "aid" - let's see the aid number without the line items that have to be repaid

 

[Reddington]

Student loans are included in the "aid" - let's see the aid number without the line items that have to be repaid

Wisconsin has 25 players on their roster.
You are only allowed to offer 18 full scholarships. That means 11 full rides and 14 partials. That's where the we pay for two you pay for two comes in.

And that is for simplisticty. I assume that Wisconsin has 18 boys matched up with 18 girls. My fav illustration is Syracuse men's basketball. They can have up to 15 scholarships but because they can only fund 9 because of matching and equalizing the men's scholarships with women's scholarships and it's just not hockey scholarships, it is all sports.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Learning About Div 1 Programs and Coaches

Wisconsin has 25 players on their roster.
You are only allowed to offer 18 full scholarships. That means 11 full rides and 14 partials. That's where the we pay for two you pay for two comes in.

And that is for simplisticty. I assume that Wisconsin has 18 boys matched up with 18 girls. My fav illustration is Syracuse men's basketball. They can have up to 15 scholarships but because they can only fund 9 because of matching and equalizing the men's scholarships with women's scholarships and it's just not hockey scholarships, it is all sports.

Geezuz, hopefully nobody ever asks you for directions how to get somewhere, they'd get completely lost
if this isn't the worst explanation of something on this forum, whatever exceeded it must have been complete gibberish