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Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

E

ExileOnDaytonStreet

Drunkard
I've got an interesting issue.

In the EoDS Castle, I have one line coming off of a circuit sub-panel in the basement. From what I can tell, only four items are connected to this circuit:

Light switch for laundry room.
Light switch for bathroom
Light/ventilator fan combo (Broan 741SN, if that matters to you)
Outlet in Bathroom (standard GFCI outlet with two outlets)

But I'm having a problem: the light/ventilator fan in the bathroom doesn't work. Neither does the outlet. The light switch in the bathroom might not be getting current, but it's hard for me to tell without a voltmeter (which I'll be purchasing on my way home from work tomorrow).

I've checked the wiring in the boxes for the switch and the outlet, and I don't see any major issues evident. No shorts, no burnouts, nothing. I re-secured the wire leads and covered the exposed fasteners with electrical tape to be certain. Since I'm not exactly a pro, I guess I still can't rule that out.

I'd try to check the light/fan combo unit myself, but all of the wiring (wire nuts/grounding to connect to the incoming line) are actually above the main box. When I take off the part with the light sockets, all I can do from there is take a look at the motor. Nothings burned out, from what I can tell. The light sockets work fine (you can actually plug that in to a standard outlet, and it lights up just fine), but its not like that would be the problem anyway.

I'm at a loss and my pride won't let me call in an electrician unless its necessary. (Okay, my wallet says that, too)

Any amateur electricians have any ideas?
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

Hrm... USCHO + Electricity...

What could possibly go wrong :p
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
I've got an interesting issue.

In the EoDS Castle, I have one line coming off of a circuit sub-panel in the basement. From what I can tell, only four items are connected to this circuit:

Light switch for laundry room.
Light switch for bathroom
Light/ventilator fan combo (Broan 741SN, if that matters to you)
Outlet in Bathroom (standard GFCI outlet with two outlets)

But I'm having a problem: the light/ventilator fan in the bathroom doesn't work. Neither does the outlet. The light switch in the bathroom might not be getting current, but it's hard for me to tell without a voltmeter (which I'll be purchasing on my way home from work tomorrow).

I've checked the wiring in the boxes for the switch and the outlet, and I don't see any major issues evident. No shorts, no burnouts, nothing. I re-secured the wire leads and covered the exposed fasteners with electrical tape to be certain. Since I'm not exactly a pro, I guess I still can't rule that out.

I'd try to check the light/fan combo unit myself, but all of the wiring (wire nuts/grounding to connect to the incoming line) are actually above the main box. When I take off the part with the light sockets, all I can do from there is take a look at the motor. Nothings burned out, from what I can tell. The light sockets work fine (you can actually plug that in to a standard outlet, and it lights up just fine), but its not like that would be the problem anyway.

I'm at a loss and my pride won't let me call in an electrician unless its necessary. (Okay, my wallet says that, too)

Any amateur electricians have any ideas?
Click to expand...

Make sure that the outlet doesn't need to be reset.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

pretty hard to tell whats going on if you can't tell if there is voltage at the boxes. You probably don't need a Voltmeter unless you really want one, this would fine
http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Electrical-Test-Tools/Electrical-Testers/Fluke-1AC-II.htm?PID=56048 Doesn't have to be a Fluke, should be able to find one for 10 bucks or so, just make sure you test it on a known live circuit

Is the breaker off, obvious I know but make sure you turn it off all the way and then back on. GFCI outlet would be the first place I check, they go bad quite often. Will it trip if test button is pushed? if not, no power at GFCI or GFCI is bad.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
I've got an interesting issue.

In the EoDS Castle, I have one line coming off of a circuit sub-panel in the basement. From what I can tell, only four items are connected to this circuit:

Light switch for laundry room.
Light switch for bathroom
Light/ventilator fan combo (Broan 741SN, if that matters to you)
Outlet in Bathroom (standard GFCI outlet with two outlets)

But I'm having a problem: the light/ventilator fan in the bathroom doesn't work. Neither does the outlet. The light switch in the bathroom might not be getting current, but it's hard for me to tell without a voltmeter (which I'll be purchasing on my way home from work tomorrow).

I've checked the wiring in the boxes for the switch and the outlet, and I don't see any major issues evident. No shorts, no burnouts, nothing. I re-secured the wire leads and covered the exposed fasteners with electrical tape to be certain. Since I'm not exactly a pro, I guess I still can't rule that out.

I'd try to check the light/fan combo unit myself, but all of the wiring (wire nuts/grounding to connect to the incoming line) are actually above the main box. When I take off the part with the light sockets, all I can do from there is take a look at the motor. Nothings burned out, from what I can tell. The light sockets work fine (you can actually plug that in to a standard outlet, and it lights up just fine), but its not like that would be the problem anyway.

I'm at a loss and my pride won't let me call in an electrician unless its necessary. (Okay, my wallet says that, too)

Any amateur electricians have any ideas?
Click to expand...

I am an amateur, but I have quite a bit of basic electrical work (including running completely new circuits for some remodels). My first suggestion is that if you feel over your head at all you should call a professional. If you screw up doing DYI plumbing you're looking at a leak. If you screw up DIY electrical the worst case involves fire and/or electrocution.

That being said:

Are your switches fed off the "load" side of the GFCI outlet? If they are and if the GFCI trips they won't be getting any power.

Also, not that I think you need to since I doubt the problem is here, but you should be able to remove a panel in the fan/light and get to the junction box (by code any type of wire-nutted connection has to be accessible, all light/fans are designed to allow access to these connections -- but it can be non-obvious and a pain in the *** to get to them - almost as bad as trying to get to the junction box for a 4" recessed new construction light after the ceiling is finished).
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

walrus said:
pretty hard to tell whats going on if you can't tell if there is voltage at the boxes. You probably don't need a Voltmeter unless you really want one, this would fine
http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Electrical-Test-Tools/Electrical-Testers/Fluke-1AC-II.htm?PID=56048 Doesn't have to be a Fluke, should be able to find one for 10 bucks or so, just make sure you test it on a known live circuit

Is the breaker off, obvious I know but make sure you turn it off all the way and then back on. GFCI outlet would be the first place I check, they go bad quite often. Will it trip if test button is pushed? if not, no power at GFCI or GFCI is bad.
Click to expand...
This is a great little tool. Bought one a little while back and it's been very handy.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

Let me get this straight, you're saying that some of the components on this circuit are working but others aren't? You mentioned that the exhaust fan didn't work and neither did the outlet, and possibly the bathroom lights. What is the situation with the last thing on your list for that circuit, the laundry room fan? If that doesn't work either, the problem is probably at your breaker box. Maybe it is a bad circuit breaker. If there is power to the laundry room lights, but nothing in the bathroom, then I wouldn't know where to start, since if it is the GFCI, that wouldn't kill power to the lights in the bathroom.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

Carter said:
It'd kill power to the lights if they happened to be farther out in the circuit than the GFCI, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
The ground fault outlet should just kill power to that particular outlet, it shouldn't kill any power to any wires leaving the back of the outlet, if I understand how they work correctly. Either way, I would expect the power to go to the light switch before an outlet, but that could be different depending on the situation, I guess.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

bigblue_dl said:
The ground fault outlet should just kill power to that particular outlet, it shouldn't kill any power to any wires leaving the back of the outlet, if I understand how they work correctly. Either way, I would expect the power to go to the light switch before an outlet, but that could be different depending on the situation, I guess.
Click to expand...

No, it'll kill everything beyond it on the circuit. And they do go bad (don't work even when appearing to be reset). Odds are you need a replacement GFCI outlet.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

geezer said:
No, it'll kill everything beyond it on the circuit. And they do go bad (don't work even when appearing to be reset). Odds are you need a replacement GFCI outlet.
Click to expand...

If its wired off the load side of the GFCI it will kill the power down the line, if its wired in parallel with the GFCI than wiring down the line will be hot no matter what the GFCI does
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

walrus said:
If its wired off the load side of the GFCI it will kill the power down the line, if its wired in parallel with the GFCI than wiring down the line will be hot no matter what the GFCI does
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure for a bathroom, the former is code everywhere. But I suppose it could be old or wrongly installed.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

geezer said:
I'm pretty sure for a bathroom, the former is code everywhere. But I suppose it could be old or wrongly installed.
Click to expand...

It might make a difference if the GFCI was thrown in to the circuit long after the original wiring was done. I could easily see that happening.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

I would replace the switch (they do go bad) for the vent fan or at least check that 1st.

For the GFCI, check to see if the red button has popped (tripped) and reset by pressing the red reset button.

http://mrsmartservices.com/mrsmartservices/?cat=21
If you have a plug or a device that does not work in one of these locations, the gfi might be tripped. First, ensure that the situation that caused the tripping is resolved such as ensuring items are dry. Then reset the plug or breaker. The plugs have a test and a reset button. Press the reset button.
Click to expand...

Then call the electrician.

200607_GarageGFCI_001_sz2-276x300.jpg
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

I had a long day at work (and we have a second bathroom), so I haven't been able/in a rush to address the issue yet. I'm fine keeping the breaker off for now. As such, the safety counter will not have to be reset until at least tomorrow night.
 
Re: Home Electrical Wiring For Morons

bigblue_dl said:
The ground fault outlet should just kill power to that particular outlet, it shouldn't kill any power to any wires leaving the back of the outlet, if I understand how they work correctly. Either way, I would expect the power to go to the light switch before an outlet, but that could be different depending on the situation, I guess.
Click to expand...

there are plenty of situations where you would feed power to a switch from an outlet. not sure why you would expect power to go to the switch first.

as I mentioned (and walrus also mentioned) anything fed off the load side of a GFCI outlet will be protected by the GFCI. That being said, most electricians would wire a light switch in parallel so it is not GFCI protected.
 
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