Cellar Dwellers

[AggiesHockey]

Hi folks, My first post, so please excuse if I violate the rules of decorum.

I am interested in peoples' opinions on what the prospects are for turn-around of some of college women's hockey's cellar dwellers. The teams that seem mired in the muck, with only a few wins the past few years.

Not trying to start anything negative, but rather looking for insight on who is a likely turnaround candiate. Which of the cellar dwellers have brought in new staff, new players, new facilities, new scholarship funds -- anything that might help them turn a .100 team into a 0.250 team next year, and maybe a 0.500 team the year after.

I've seen the thread on UVM (time for a change)...I'd like to keep this thread more positive. Which of the cellar dwellers have made positive changes that might set them on a path toward greater competitiveness in D1 college hockey?

 

[rugrats]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Hi folks, My first post, so please excuse if I violate the rules of decorum.

I am interested in peoples' opinions on what the prospects are for turn-around of some of college women's hockey's cellar dwellers. The teams that seem mired in the muck, with only a few wins the past few years.

Not trying to start anything negative, but rather looking for insight on who is a likely turnaround candiate. Which of the cellar dwellers have brought in new staff, new players, new facilities, new scholarship funds -- anything that might help them turn a .100 team into a 0.250 team next year, and maybe a 0.500 team the year after.

I've seen the thread on UVM (time for a change)...I'd like to keep this thread more positive. Which of the cellar dwellers have made positive changes that might set them on a path toward greater competitiveness in D1 college hockey?

Hey! Welcome to the forum. Wow, you are covering a lot of ground with your question. However, if you are looking for a school/hockey program for your daughter, don't base your decision on the coaching staff.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

I

Hi folks, My first post, so please excuse if I violate the rules of decorum.

I am interested in peoples' opinions on what the prospects are for turn-around of some of college women's hockey's cellar dwellers. The teams that seem mired in the muck, with only a few wins the past few years.

Not trying to start anything negative, but rather looking for insight on who is a likely turnaround candiate. Which of the cellar dwellers have brought in new staff, new players, new facilities, new scholarship funds -- anything that might help them turn a .100 team into a 0.250 team next year, and maybe a 0.500 team the year after.

I've seen the thread on UVM (time for a change)...I'd like to keep this thread more positive. Which of the cellar dwellers have made positive changes that might set them on a path toward greater competitiveness in D1 college hockey?

First rule of thumb on the boards Aggie, don't listen to Rugrats..heavily weight your decision on the coach and staff if that goes south you will likely be transfering.

 

[pakidnyc]

Hi folks, My first post, so please excuse if I violate the rules of decorum.

I am interested in peoples' opinions on what the prospects are for turn-around of some of college women's hockey's cellar dwellers. The teams that seem mired in the muck, with only a few wins the past few years.

Not trying to start anything negative, but rather looking for insight on who is a likely turnaround candiate. Which of the cellar dwellers have brought in new staff, new players, new facilities, new scholarship funds -- anything that might help them turn a .100 team into a 0.250 team next year, and maybe a 0.500 team the year after.

I've seen the thread on UVM (time for a change)...I'd like to keep this thread more positive. Which of the cellar dwellers have made positive changes that might set them on a path toward greater competitiveness in D1 college hockey?

To answer your question, and try and keep things positive.....

RMU has in the past been towards the bottom, but has improved as of late. Since they have a new coach this year (these aren't his recruits) but they are performing well, I suspect some good recruits will at least give him a chance and take a look at RMU. Whereas in the past they had a tough time getting them on campus. The campus is in a suburb of Pittsburgh, very nice setting and a real "campus" where you can easily walk to everything (except the ice rink). But there is a shuttle, freshmen are allowed cars and it's a very nice rink.

Brown looks to be turning things in a positive direction. They still have a chance to make ECAC playoffs which I suspect would be the 1st in a while. It's a city school in Providence. I love the campus and of course its an Ivy league education.

When choosing a school, there are so many factors to consider, coaching is just one of them. While it's very important, what happens if the coach changes? Every year it seems there are 3-4 job openings. We felt that the type of person the coach is (trustworthy, integrity, etc) were more important than how good of a coach.

Of course at the end of the day, it was daughters choice as she's the one who has to live there for 4 years and with the team, coach and school!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

However, if you are looking for a school/hockey program for your daughter, don't base your decision on the coaching staff.

On the contrary. Picking a coach that appears to be a good match, is one of the more important factors.

IMHO order of choice should be based on:

1 - Academics at the school and the programs they offer are in line with your interest.
2 - Financial factors
3 - Your fit within the team and how it alligns with your expectations and your comfort level with the coach.
4 - The caliber of the team

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Hi folks, My first post, so please excuse if I violate the rules of decorum.

I am interested in peoples' opinions on what the prospects are for turn-around of some of college women's hockey's cellar dwellers. The teams that seem mired in the muck, with only a few wins the past few years.

Not trying to start anything negative, but rather looking for insight on who is a likely turnaround candiate. Which of the cellar dwellers have brought in new staff, new players, new facilities, new scholarship funds -- anything that might help them turn a .100 team into a 0.250 team next year, and maybe a 0.500 team the year after.

I've seen the thread on UVM (time for a change)...I'd like to keep this thread more positive. Which of the cellar dwellers have made positive changes that might set them on a path toward greater competitiveness in D1 college hockey?

There have been various examples of recents turnarounds. I'll focus on a couple of examples from the ECAC.

Cornell was mired in mediocrity for many years. Their turnaround started about 6 years ago, and they have been tops in the ECAC for the last 3 years. Quinnipiac is another team that was at the bottom of the pile only about 4 or 5 years ago or so. They have been a serious contender for the last two years. Yale had several years of improvement, moving up from the cellar, but have fallen on hard times this year. Brown, a perrenial powerhouse 10 years ago has had a couple of really bad years, but are now turning things around.

Key for a turnaround is good recruiting, a coach that can keep a team cohesive and on the same gameplan, even in tough times, and an AD that supports the team/sport with the right level of resources.

Cornell's key moment in their turnaround was the landing of Rebecca Johnson as a recruit.

PA Kid in NY got it right. There are many,many,many variables to consider, when looking at schools. The win loss record is only one of many factors. IMHO the choice should be based on academic fit first and foremost.

 

[zoofer]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Welcome to the Forum Aggies....since I am not a parent, I would weight my opinions to those who have or have sent their kids into the college hockey ranks, however with that said I've been in and around college hockey since 73.....I agree with OnMaa's list for the most part...as an example, if I were looking at schools today, Northeastern and it's education/intership programs might draw me away from UNH, but then again I couldn't do the city life and loved Durham.....obviously money is key if she doesn't get a scholaship.....the real point for me is that a good friend's daughter was recruited heavily for D-1 but she ended up going to D-3 because she didn't want to live the life of today's D-1 athlete! It is very demanding and requires a whole lot of dedication....make sure your kid understands the demands that will be there.....lastly, assuming your kid is above average, would she want to get lots of ice time and not worry about the team, or is she the role player type and can be a 3/4 liner who enjoys being part of something big....either way, being apart of a true TEAM will galvanize the person she will eventually become.....imho, that is.

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

I'll be a bit more specific...

SCSU was 1-31-1 last year. Right now, 5-19-2, already a vast improvement over last year. Recruited a strong goalie (Friend). Seems like they're turning the corner.

Union gets Julie Chu as an assistant... I would think that would add to their ability to recruit some good players. Is it???

Yale gets Flygh right before the 2010-11 season. He assisted in very strong programs (UMD, Hahvahd). So far, no turnaround in the W/L record, but it's only his 2nd season, and recruiting for the previous season was probably done before he signed on. Can he get it done?

Lindenwood goes D1 this year. Low expectations for year 1. Can they put St Charles, Missouri on the hockey map, like Nebraska-Omaha has done with the men's program? Did they make the right call going D1?

 

[backcheck]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Brown has great goaltending, ivy league pedigree and with the coaching change may have a good upside. On the other hand, the only commitment thus far appears to be another goaltender.

Lindenwood has had a challenging in its first year as to be expected, however it has had some recent success with teams closer to its level as of late. If they can pick up a good year of recruiting they could make some progress but they appear have no-one committed thus far.

 

[northhockey]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

SCSU needs alot of work. I would think that the increase in wins have something to do with MSU under-achieving.

 

[ADK11]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

For Union, I think it's fair to say that this year's freshmen are the best class the program has seen. The team won its first league game in about a decade last season and this season have had two 3-point weekends in league play - big doings for Union. A little better luck in their 9 OT games (only 1 win and 0-2-2 ECAC) and the team might be fighting for a playoff spot. The vibe and expectations surrounding the team are certainly better, and having Chu on board definitely gives the program more credibility, but there is still a long way to go to reach even double-digit wins and true playoff contention. Whether U can truly attract enough high level players on a consistent basis to get over that hump remains to be seen given the recruiting limitations (no scholarships, limited financial aid for "foreign" i.e. Canadian students). There has been some talk of either building a new rink or doing a major rehab of the existing one, but this is still firmly in the rumor stage.

I'd also mention that Union's men team has been very good the last two seasons and there is increasing enthusiasm for hockey on campus and within the administration. U went a long time trying to run hockey the same as their other D-III athletic programs, with disastrous results. The women's hockey team has been stuck in that trap, but the hiring of Chu seems to be a sign that the school is noticing they have two D-1 hockey programs. Hopefully she stays around long enough to keep the Dutchwomen on the upswing.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

For Union, I think it's fair to say that this year's freshmen are the best class the program has seen. The team won its first league game in about a decade last season and this season have had two 3-point weekends in league play - big doings for Union. A little better luck in their 9 OT games (only 1 win and 0-2-2 ECAC) and the team might be fighting for a playoff spot. The vibe and expectations surrounding the team are certainly better, and having Chu on board definitely gives the program more credibility, but there is still a long way to go to reach even double-digit wins and true playoff contention. Whether U can truly attract enough high level players on a consistent basis to get over that hump remains to be seen given the recruiting limitations (no scholarships, limited financial aid for "foreign" i.e. Canadian students). There has been some talk of either building a new rink or doing a major rehab of the existing one, but this is still firmly in the rumor stage.

I'd also mention that Union's men team has been very good the last two seasons and there is increasing enthusiasm for hockey on campus and within the administration. U went a long time trying to run hockey the same as their other D-III athletic programs, with disastrous results. The women's hockey team has been stuck in that trap, but the hiring of Chu seems to be a sign that the school is noticing they have two D-1 hockey programs. Hopefully she stays around long enough to keep the Dutchwomen on the upswing.

Have seen them play a couple of times this year, and they are improved over years past, clearly heading in the right direction. Looks like this will be the first time ever that they will not finish in last place in the ECAC. Another, albeit small, milestone for them.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Union has a very nice little campus.

 

[NUWH DogHouse]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Early season when they came to town Union looked good. I really thought they were better then their record shows now.

 

[ARM]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Early season when they came to town Union looked good. I really thought they were better then their record shows now.

They struggle to score. The Dutchwomen are one of five teams that score less than two goals per game, and those five rank lowest in winning percentage. Meanwhile, of the teams that score more than four per game on average, only UND is not in the top five in winning percentage. Despite everything one reads on here, most teams are well coached and play decent team defense. To overcome that, it usually takes some offensive talent, or a lot of hard work combined with a bounce or two.

 

[D2D]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

They struggle to score. The Dutchwomen are one of five teams that score less than two goals per game, and those five rank lowest in winning percentage. Meanwhile, of the teams that score more than four per game on average, only UND is not in the top five in winning percentage. Despite everything one reads on here, most teams are well coached and play decent team defense. To overcome that, it usually takes some offensive talent, or a lot of hard work combined with a bounce or two.

Agree, but perhaps it's probably not coincidental that the teams that are ranked at the bottom of team offense are also ranked towards the bottom of team defense ( http://www.uscho.com/stats/overall/division-i-women/2011-2012/ ). Although there are others, perhaps the biggest exception is Princeton, which has the same exact average goals-per-game for as goals against (2.09). This ranks them very low (No. 29 of 35) in terms of offense, but much more towards the top (No. 11 of 35) on defense.

Also, hard to measure the exact impact from these stats, as team defense very much comes into play, but quality goaltending obviously plays a huge role as well. In terms of overall average goals against, Minnesota, Cornell and Wisconsin are at the top, just like in the polls.

 

[backcheck]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Union has 8 losses by a one goal margin. For a team that has struggled previously, they have closed the gap, perhaps much more than their record indicates. With their top two point getters being freshman, that also bods well for the future. They could really use a couple of point a game scorers, but so could most of teams. Those scorers seem to be plentiful on a handful of the top ranked teams.

A quick look at the box scores of the last 6 games shows them outshot each game aside from UConn and giving up over 30 shots per game. That points to solid goaltending; and the again the need for more time in the offensive zone.

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Last year, Union was 2-29-3 (0.103), 1-19-2 Conference (0.091). Ten 1-goal losses.
This year, so far: 4-19-4 (0.222), 2-11-2 Conference (.200). Eight 1-goal losses.
Not a meteoric rise from the ashes, but certainly doubling the win percentage is an accomplishment. If they can pull out one more win...tomorrow's game is probably the best shot. I'm guessing Chu will definitely help this team progress, both in recruiting, and on the ice. Some athletic scholarships would certainly help their cause.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Cellar Dwellers

Last year, Union was 2-29-3 (0.103), 1-19-2 Conference (0.091). Ten 1-goal losses.
This year, so far: 4-19-4 (0.222), 2-11-2 Conference (.200). Eight 1-goal losses.
Not a meteoric rise from the ashes, but certainly doubling the win percentage is an accomplishment. If they can pull out one more win...tomorrow's game is probably the best shot. I'm guessing Chu will definitely help this team progress, both in recruiting, and on the ice. Some athletic scholarships would certainly help their cause.

They missed that chance with RPI winning 3-0. Union is not allowed to give athletic scholarships as they are D-III and not grrandfathered in like RPI, Clarkson, and SLU. The Union men haven't done badly recently with the same restriction.