POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Another murder, this time of a 2-year old.

Be proud, Republicans. Be oh so oh so proud of yourselves. Nobody else. You did this. Who's a good boy?

[MissThundercat]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Another murder, this time of a 2-year old.

Be proud, Republicans. Be oh so oh so proud of yourselves. Nobody else. You did this. Who's a good boy?

But he's not a 6 week old embryo. Republicans don't give a sh-t.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Another murder, this time of a 2-year old.

Be proud, Republicans. Be oh so oh so proud of yourselves. Nobody else. You did this. Who's a good boy?

Don’t say who’s a good boy. That’s for dogs. Dogs are infinitely better than republicans

[rufus]

She was going to raise taxes on the rich barely, spend a blip of the budget on infrastructure, let students refinance their debt so they got slightly less ****ed, and increase the min wage.

She also supported NAFTA (which is a big reason she lost those rust belt states) and got all her money from Wall St. so there was reason to be skeptical of any large scale changes taking place especially in middle America.

And Liz Warren's policies are infinitely better.

Saw an article the other day, can't remember where, but it was on the state of manufacturing in the US. You can do a search for it, or if I find it again, I'll link to it.

In short, US manufacturing is better now than it was before NAFTA, US trade numbers are better than they were before NAFTA, etc.

But you just go on believing what you heartlanders believe.

Ahh, here it is. From George Will, of all people. Raging liberal socialist.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2019/05/12/george-f-will-danger/

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Saw an article the other day, can't remember where, but it was on the state of manufacturing in the US. You can do a search for it, or if I find it again, I'll link to it.

In short, US manufacturing is better now than it was before NAFTA, US trade numbers are better than they were before NAFTA, etc.

But you just go on believing what you heartlanders believe.

Hey now...dont lump us all in with trix

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

There are tapes: https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...37199620984840

[trixR4kids]

Saw an article the other day, can't remember where, but it was on the state of manufacturing in the US. You can do a search for it, or if I find it again, I'll link to it.

In short, US manufacturing is better now than it was before NAFTA, US trade numbers are better than they were before NAFTA, etc.

But you just go on believing what you heartlanders believe.

Ahh, here it is. From George Will, of all people. Raging liberal socialist.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2019/05/12/george-f-will-danger/

There appears to be some serious stat cherry picking in that article, most of which can’t even directly be tied to NAFTA. (And while I don’t know anything about George Will, if he’s writing for a Jeff Bezos owned paper I kinda doubt that he fits that label). Sure output went up, what happened to wages and union protections? What happened in terms of net job loss over the past 20 years? Oh

Clinton and his collaborators promised that the deal would bring "good-paying American jobs," a rising trade surplus with Mexico, and a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration. Instead, NAFTA directly cost the U.S. a net loss of 700,000 jobs. The surplus with Mexico turned into a chronic deficit. And the economic dislocation in Mexico increased the the flow of undocumented workers into the U.S.

Nevertheless, Clinton and his Republican successor, George Bush II, then used the NAFTA template to design the World Trade Organization, more than a dozen bilateral trade treaties, and the deal that opened the American market to China -- which alone has cost the U.S. another net 2.7 million jobs. The result has been 20 years of relentless outsourcing of jobs and technology.

NAFTA's fundamental purpose was not to free trade, it was to free multinational corporations from public regulation in the U.S., Mexico, Canada, and eventually all over the world.

Among other things, NAFTA granted corporations extraordinary legal protections against national labor and environmental laws that that they could claim threatened future profits. At the same time, workers and unions were denied the legal status needed to defend themselves in these new cross-border jurisdictions.

It is not just workers in export and import industries who have suffered. Labor markets are connected. When autoworkers and steelworkers are hired for $14 instead of $20 an hour, lower wages ripple into the paychecks of those who work for suppliers, construction contractors, restaurants, and retail stores.

Nor is it just American workers who have taken the hit. Historically high Canadian wages also have been undercut. In Mexico, although some new jobs are created when production is shifted south of the border, the lack of worker protections in NAFTA insured that corporate investors would reap most of the benefits. The gap between U.S. and Mexican wages remains as wide as it was twenty years ago. In the even poorer countries, unregulated global trade has led to the ruthless exploitation of labor -- from teenagers in the sweat shops of Bangladesh to eight year olds working in the gold mines of Tanzania.

But you know, production is up I guess

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4528140/amp

[joecct]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

He had a good year.

https://wtop.com/white-house/2019/05...llion-in-2018/

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

And yet they forced Carter to sell his fu**ing peanut farm.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

If they thought a (fake) billionaire from NY had their best interests at heart they are getting exactly what they deserved. I am glad they maybe learned their lessons, but they get zero sympathy for their plight. They made their bed they can stew in it. (see also: Northern Minnesota)

If they prove they learned their lesson we can talk then. If I had a nickle for every GOPer I have met who disavowed their leader but still voted for them in November I wouldnt need to save for retirement.

Has anything I've ever posted here suggested I feel any differently? Not everyone that voted for Trump last time is going to vote for him this time. True or false? All other commentary beyond that answer is just noise.

I'll just have to bear the burden of your scorn Slappy! Not sure how I can go on knowing a total idiot doesn't like me, but somehow I'll manage...

1. Calling me an idiot is code for you conceding.
2. Like you? Why would you matter enough to me to have ever given it a thought?
3. You still need to get over yourself
4. Hope that helps

Voting for (depending on one's political bent) Clinton in 1992, or Dukakis in 1988 or George W. Bush in 2000 or for practically any other major party candidate for president in my lifetime (I've been voting since Reagan) could be considered a "mistake," sure. But you are giving far too much credit to people who voted for trump to call that a mistake. Only someone truly very stupid could have voted for trump in 2016 and not known what we were actually going to get.

Another smartest guy in the room.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

There are tapes: https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...37199620984840

Obstruction of justice apparently isn’t a thing anymore.

Would love just one conservative here to explain how this is ok. I’m sure it won’t be for the next D president

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/444166-flynn-provided-details-in-muellers-obstruction-inquiry-new-memo

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

My layman's understanding:

Free trade benefits labor as a whole by increasing trade but it harms expensive labor by forcing it to compete with cheap labor. To take advantage of the benefits of free trade, expensive labor would have to relocate to the source of cheap labor, take a cut in compensation, but have a net gain because of the relative drop in cost of living. But even then quality of life in areas of cheap labor is typically much lower so it's probably not a good trade, and anyway people just cannot move around the way capital can.

Free trade also harms expensive geographically anchored assets like particular mines, farms, forests, fisheries, etc.

Because the US led (dominated) the world economy after our WW2 growth spurt, free trade was always going to harm our poor and lower middle class. It would help our upper middle class (cheaper consumer goods, jobs not at risk) and our rich (investments grow by moving jobs overseas). It would also help the world, obviously, and it would help us if we could raise the world's poor to the point where abject misery decreased and stop driving terrorism, revolution, resource wars, and general instability. As the world's poor became richer they would also demand more rights thus increasing democracy overall which would also help make the world less volatile.

But. This plan could only help our poor and the lower middle class if we took the increased revenue from the expansion of trade and massively plowed it back into helping our poor and lower middle class make the transition to a post-labor economy. We were taking away their jobs. We couldn't just leave them high and dry.

This actually happened before, albeit more gradually and far more locally, when industrialization moved the locus of labor from the largest cities to smaller cities in the period 1850-1950. In fact it's what built the Rust Belt in the first place, and it's also what drove the disintegration of our largest cities. We have a welfare state in large part to compensate for that relocation. We pulled it off because it also coincided with depression and war and the massive "industrialization of government" of the 20th century.

But beginning with Reagan, the American upper middle class and rich became too entitled and stupid to understand that's how we build a prosperous country and the right was always there to assure them they "deserved" tax cuts, and that government was "the problem." So, our trade policies (which continued and accelerated) ripped off our workers but didn't compensate them, and our rich got so much richer they were able to take control of our democratic institutions and ensure their gravy train would continue in perpetuity.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Obstruction of justice apparently isn’t a thing anymore.

Would love just one conservative here to explain how this is ok. I’m sure it won’t be for the next D president

https://thehill.com/policy/national-...quiry-new-memo

It's a thing, Republicans just don't think it should be an impeachable thing as long as it's their guy in the WH.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

sounds a little authoritarian

My Campaign for President was conclusively spied on. Nothing like this has ever happened in American Politics. A really bad situation. TREASON means long jail sentences, and this was TREASON!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 17, 2019

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

sounds a little authoritarian

POS gonna POS.