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  • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."
    If this had been the Irony thread, Fish would have just won it.
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    • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

      Originally posted by Handyman View Post

      My point was the stupid "Duke Lacrosse" meme is way overused.
      Funny thing being, if it wasn't a bunch of rich white kids whose parents could afford a good legal team, we wouldn't be referring to that case in the light we currently do.

      Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
      French Police kill black man!

      How do I scream "Ferguson!" in French?

      http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...id=mailsignout

      Oh, wait, is this shooting acceptable because ... no, he was black, never acceptable. Nevermind.
      This post brought to you by the Grand Forks education system.

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      • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        If this had been the Irony thread, Fish would have just won it.
        I'm pretty sure that is true about every poster on here, except me
        I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

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        • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

          Originally posted by walrus View Post
          Got to love when board moderators are the biggest trolls on the board. Way to pick them USCHO
          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          One might even say he's a bad cop...
          Quality humor like this is what keeps me coming back here. You can't put a dollar value on this stuff. It's, in a word......(wait for it).......Priceless
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          • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

            Originally posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
            Let's find out if the training makes a difference.

            Hey SteveP...as someone who has gone through the training, how would you have handled the situations in the video?
            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
            *I* can even answer this, from a person who's had multiple family members in the force. It does matter. However, most people don't really get what "split-second" decision means in that line of work. Sometimes, it's really you or him. Or you have to diffuse the situation RIGHT NOW. Or, you know, you're dead. In the CLE case...horrible decisions. In many other situations...well, best of luck. Hope someone's looking out for you. You never know. And that's the key. You NEVER know.

            I still hear people say "why doesn't the officer shoot the gun out of the person's hand?" Um....no. That is not what they are trained to do. You shoot at the largest mass-point, which is the torso. Or, you use appropriate force to negate the threat, until the threat is gone. Period.
            It's encouraging to see the Reverend's opinion of split-second decision making changed after his "training" experience. One thing that I did notice is that he was only armed with a handgun....no pepper spray or baton that I would be carrying on patrol. Those would be my first options before using deadly force. And Brent is right -- cops are trained to shoot "center mass". Shooting the gun out of the hand is so Hollywood.

            I had a similar situation to the first scenario early in my career -- a guy wandering around Yorkville Av. on a Sunday afternoon caught my attention. Yorkville is a very trendy area in downtown Toronto and his appearance and actions were very out of place. I called for backup, got out and tried to interact with him. He had one hand in his coat pocket and wouldn't take it out when I ordered him to do so. Long story short, we managed to subdue him without a shot fired. He was holding a pack of cigs in his pocket and wanted suicide by cop. Probably the closest I came to pulling the trigger in 21 years.

            In the third scenario, the Rev has limited control of the subject, but with the gun still in his hand and not in his holster he's restricted to how and what he can do to gain full control over the subject. Doubly difficult given the guy is a moose.
            Growing old is mandatory -- growing up is optional!

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            • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
              And you see, despite the fact that I literally posted I wasnt commenting on you and Priceless you ignored what I said and made it about you. That is the problem with debate in modern society (especially on the web) everyone takes everything as an affront to them even when it isnt. Just because I post something that doesnt condemn Priceless doesnt mean I am agreeing with his attack on you.

              My point was the stupid "Duke Lacrosse" meme is way overused. Yes most people were ultimately wrong about it but that doesnt mean that everyone who forms an opinion right away is automatically wrong by doing so. We are humans we will have inherent biases. (for example you are biased towards cops and cruddy Yooper Hockey squads, dx is biased towards charts and graphs and trix is biased towards worthless stats and terrible analogies ) As more facts come out you can change your opinion of a situation. That is thinking and learning.

              I equate how people act these days to flopping in sports. Nowadays instead of actually debating (playing harder) everyone just takes the easy way out and shouts louder and gets personal. (takes the fall to draw a penalty) It is all lowest common denominator Faux News/MSNBC bs. All crap and no substance.
              Actually, I was agreeing with you about forming an opinion, and possibly changing the opinion as more information comes to light.
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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              • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                Fair enough
                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                -aparch

                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                -INCH

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                • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                  Originally posted by SteveP View Post
                  It's encouraging to see the Reverend's opinion of split-second decision making changed after his "training" experience. One thing that I did notice is that he was only armed with a handgun....no pepper spray or baton that I would be carrying on patrol. Those would be my first options before using deadly force. And Brent is right -- cops are trained to shoot "center mass". Shooting the gun out of the hand is so Hollywood.

                  I had a similar situation to the first scenario early in my career -- a guy wandering around Yorkville Av. on a Sunday afternoon caught my attention. Yorkville is a very trendy area in downtown Toronto and his appearance and actions were very out of place. I called for backup, got out and tried to interact with him. He had one hand in his coat pocket and wouldn't take it out when I ordered him to do so. Long story short, we managed to subdue him without a shot fired. He was holding a pack of cigs in his pocket and wanted suicide by cop. Probably the closest I came to pulling the trigger in 21 years.

                  In the third scenario, the Rev has limited control of the subject, but with the gun still in his hand and not in his holster he's restricted to how and what he can do to gain full control over the subject. Doubly difficult given the guy is a moose.
                  That's why I posted the link. Many don't realize what officers have to go through: how quickly you have to make decisions, etc. There isn't time to speculate. Training basically tries to alter your instincts, and respond in the appropriate fashion. Things happen that quick.
                  Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                  Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                  • Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                    That's why I posted the link. Many don't realize what officers have to go through: how quickly you have to make decisions, etc. There isn't time to speculate. Training basically tries to alter your instincts, and respond in the appropriate fashion. Things happen that quick.
                    Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.

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                    • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                      Originally posted by unofan View Post
                      Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
                      Most things. Key words.

                      Half the reason cop incidents are stories is because they don't happen that often. Same with plane crashes, massive earthquakes, etc. To put those in perspective, how often do you hear a big national news report on a car crash?
                      Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                      Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                      • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                        Originally posted by unofan View Post
                        Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
                        Depending upon the job and location sure it's probably mostly not life threatening - that says nothing of those moments when their life is on the line. A good friend of mine from grade school up started as a cop in Deephaven where it wasn't uncommon to shake a cat from a tree. He moved to the MPD and found himself working near Lake and 35W and said he had to draw his gun at least once a week.

                        btw it's funny that the little snot back then is now a big shot in the MPD Homicide unit whom I often see quoted in news reports and when I could watch local news being interviewed/commenting on cases.

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                        • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                          Depending upon the job and location sure it's probably mostly not life threatening - that says nothing of those moments when their life is on the line. A good friend of mine from grade school up started as a cop in Deephaven where it wasn't uncommon to shake a cat from a tree. He moved to the MPD and found himself working near Lake and 35W and said he had to draw his gun at least once a week.

                          btw it's funny that the little snot back then is now a big shot in the MPD Homicide unit whom I often see quoted in news reports and when I could watch local news being interviewed/commenting on cases.
                          35W and Lake? Ewwww. Way back in the day my dad worked at the Sears tower just off of Chicago/Lake, and Friday nights he worked late. NOT a good area at all.
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                          • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                            I used to live over there...like 3 blocks from Chicago-Lake Liquor. I was not a fan...
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                            • Re: Bad Cop, Bad Cop, Whatcha gonna do?

                              Originally posted by unofan View Post
                              Most things, like 99.99%, don't happen that quickly, though. If you ever have to sit thru days of watching police videos, they're boring as hell.
                              The old cop adage is police work is 99% sheer boredom and 1% sheer terror.

                              Slappy--- the story of your "little snot" grade school buddy brought back a memory. I went to the open house of our high school's 75th anniversary while on duty. Rolled up to the front door on the Harley, took off the helmet and sunglasses and watched the jaws dropping. Not the scrawny beanpole that most of them remembered.
                              Last edited by SteveP; 01-10-2015, 02:41 PM.
                              Growing old is mandatory -- growing up is optional!

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                              • Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                                Most things. Key words.
                                Yeah, which is why saying they're trained to be ready for anything is, pardon the pun, a cop out. Their training should not make them so itchy that they shoot first and ask questions later (Cleveland), or escalate a situation that had no reason to be violent (Garner).

                                If their excuse is "that's what I was trained to do" then maybe we need to seriously consider overhauling their training.

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