College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

[5mn_Major]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Amps up the war on Canadian Major Junior hockey you say???

Sorry Puck Swami but the war is over and it has been lost (by the NCAA). Only a hard core cadre of college coaches refuse to realize it and it is very ironic that it will take an outsider to show them the cold reality of the day.

Link

http://news.therecord.com/Sports/article/639069

I agree that the NCAA has lost ground. IMO though his solution would not be bad but rather good for NCAA. If I understand correctly, he's advocating a track by which kids could switch midstream from the CHL to NCAAs. As the NCAA is a very high level of hockey, I could see kids say...OK, I think I'll go play a year at BC or UMI against the 20+ yos. Again, I don't see the CHL going for this..just because it is morally 'better for the kids'.

I actually think this is a potentially a really interesting development because it's a way to maneuver around the stringent NCAA rules.

That's why they nabbed this guy...attorney background. He's still got his work cut out as the CHL will adjust as needed.

[manurespreader]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Well a couple of comments. We have a MJ team in our town here in Michigan and they just got a kid to switch over from one of the top US college programs. I guess he wasn't getting enough playing time there. So I would say from my observations that US colleges are not getting the talent they would like. Having said that.. MJ has always been able to get the best kids. Is MJ paying kids? Good chance in some form.
I am all for this marketing campaign though mostly because kids need to be able to have the proper information.
I would also disagree with swami. I think the vast majority of kids can do college work. Just look at football.

[dggoddard]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

That's why they nabbed this guy...attorney background. He's still got his work cut out as the CHL will adjust as needed.

I think the end game here is Kelly's attempting to to use the NHL to force CHL to "play fair." His background is not just as an attorney, but as an expert who specializes in Labor Law.

If he can convince the NHL to threaten hold the payments to the CHL, they'll be more likely come to the bargaining table. Its an interesting strategy and it just might work.

If the CHL is breaking their own rules by paying players or "robbing" kids of a college education when they are just 14 years old, the NHL is going to be very uncomfortable with this in this PC age. Especially with so many NHL franchises based in the US.

Also by shining the spotlight on what the CHL is doing, the Canadian courts might get involved. These CHL teams are breaking many their own rules and if someone really looks into it, maybe some laws. If you are paying minors, might some child labor laws not come into play? Are these kids or teams paying Canadian or US taxes on income or gifts received? Are the kids "working" more than 40 hours a week? Is "hiring" US (ie-foreign) kids legal under Canada's labor laws? It opens a whole Pandora's box.

[bothman]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

I wonder if they did some sort of survey of the US kids playing MJ - really probing on why they thought MJ was the best option and what about MJ made it so attractive for them (more games, much less focus on schoolwork, better covered by scouts, etc)

For the kids who have the ability to meet college admissions standards, I'd be interested to know the real reason from their perspective (not ours)

[dggoddard]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

I wonder if they did some sort of survey of the US kids playing MJ - really probing on why they thought MJ was the best option and what about MJ made it so attractive for them (more games, much less focus on schoolwork, better covered by scouts, etc)

For the kids who have the ability to meet college admissions standards, I'd be interested to know the real reason from their perspective (not ours)

Paul Kelly's radio interview answers all these questions and more.

http://www.thepipelineshow.com/clips...elly_Dec15.mp3

[Hokydad]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Most kids are coming from California, Michigan and NY. let em go

Lets get back to Mass and MN as the key states...

I would like to know how many of the 120+/- are able to get through clearinghouse? less then you might think

NCAA needs to extend the season and the number of games. At least 45 games

[dggoddard]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Most kids are coming from California, Michigan and NY. let em go

Lets get back to Mass and MN as the key states...

I would like to know how many of the 120+/- are able to get through clearinghouse? less then you might think

NCAA needs to extend the season and the number of games. At least 45 games

Extending the NCAA season is never going to happen. College hockey is already the longest season on the NCAA calender. If anything was going to happen the number of games would be reduced.

One has to question if the Gophers problems in recent season is related to a decline in the top end quality of Minnesota born players. Certainly less Minnesota and Mass. players are elite USHL or USNDT players than ever before.

How many families have the money to spend on producing an elite college level hockey player these days? Some have suggested that it can cost $200,000 in equipment, camps, rink fees, travel & tournaments for 12 years of youth hockey.

[4four4]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Most kids are coming from California, Michigan and NY. let em go

Lets get back to Mass and MN as the key states...

I would like to know how many of the 120+/- are able to get through clearinghouse? less then you might think

NCAA needs to extend the season and the number of games. At least 45 games

20 years ago or so the NCAA hockey schools played more games they changed it to the current set up to have the students work on getting a degree. I highly doubt we will ever see 45 games a year you are asking for.

[4four4]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Extending the NCAA season is never going to happen. College hockey is already the longest season on the NCAA calender. If anything was going to happen the number of games would be reduced.

One has to question if the Gophers problems in recent season is related to a decline in the top end quality of Minnesota born players. Certainly less Minnesota and Mass. players are elite USHL or USNDT players than ever before.

Minnesota players rarely play MJ and many of them decline to attend the USNDT. With the advent of the Minnesota Elite Fall league many players have decided to stay at home.

The fact of the matter is the state of Minnesota has produced more First round NHL draft picks then ever before.

Currently the Gophers have 15+ NHL picks on their squad if anything something else is going on in the hockey program. It is many things but the decline in the state of Minnesota producing players is not one of them.

[dggoddard]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Minnesota players rarely play MJ and many of them decline to attend the USNDT. With the advent of the Minnesota Elite Fall league many players have decided to stay at home.

The fact of the matter is the state of Minnesota has produced more First round NHL draft picks then ever before.

Currently the Gophers have 15+ NHL picks on their squad if anything something else is going on in the hockey program. It is many things but the decline in the state of Minnesota producing players is not one of them.

Only 6 of the 29 players at the USA Under 20 Camp are from Minnesota this week.

MN 6
MI 6
MA 3
NY 3
NJ 2
ILL 1
NV 1
OK 1
CA 1
MO 1
TX 1
WA 1
GA 1
OR 1

Compared to the 1980 USA Olympic Team

MN 12
MI 3
MA 4
WI 1

[Hokydad]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Extending the NCAA season is never going to happen. College hockey is already the longest season on the NCAA calender. If anything was going to happen the number of games would be reduced.

One has to question if the Gophers problems in recent season is related to a decline in the top end quality of Minnesota born players. Certainly less Minnesota and Mass. players are elite USHL or USNDT players than ever before.

How many families have the money to spend on producing an elite college level hockey player these days? Some have suggested that it can cost $200,000 in equipment, camps, rink fees, travel & tournaments for 12 years of youth hockey.

The truth of the matter is that more Mass kids are playing in the USHL now then ever before, not the other way around.

Prep hockey is in decline and mass kids are going other routes.

Just this opast year alone the following kids left mass prep schools and or high school for USHL/juniors

Arnold, USNDP
Brickley, des Moines
Dubois, Cedar rapids
Bennett, cedar Rapids
Isles. US
Fitzgerald, Indiana
Coyle, Kings
Adams, Chicago
Gacec, Monarchs
Woods, Chicago
Racine, Waterloo
Eiserman, Monarchs


These are just 12 off the top of my head.

several more went juniors instead of a PG year in prep, where they might have ended up 5 years ago.

[DaTruthinDaluth]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Well a couple of comments. We have a MJ team in our town here in Michigan and they just got a kid to switch over from one of the top US college programs. I guess he wasn't getting enough playing time there. So I would say from my observations that US colleges are not getting the talent they would like. Having said that.. MJ has always been able to get the best kids. Is MJ paying kids? Good chance in some form.
I am all for this marketing campaign though mostly because kids need to be able to have the proper information.
I would also disagree with swami. I think the vast majority of kids can do college work. Just look at football.

Or he's lazy in school and doesn't do his work... making him ineligible for the second semester... which is a character flaw that most professional teams won't want on their team anyway. If a kid is lazy in the classroom, he'll be lazy in the workplace... most Americans don't go North because they can get to the NHL... they go because they cant get into... or stay in school.

It is far better for a player to get his degree at 22 - 23 yrs old than play major juniors... flop around the minors for a few years then attempt to go to school and get a degree.... and not many take advantage of the MJ College money.... or if they do... probably don't graduate anyway. Bottom line, I don't care where you play... Canada or the US.... 95% or better will never make it to the NHL level... so the college route is a better way to play hockey and get their schooling in because that piece of paper they get when they graduate will be a whole lot more valuable than their hockey talents.... IN MOST CASES...

[Slap Shot]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Only 6 of the 29 players at the USA Under 20 Camp are from Minnesota this week.

That's your evidence? I'm willing to bet more MN kids are playing Div I, getting drafted and currently signed to pro contracts than at any time in history.

And don't forget Woog went through a similar lull at the end of his tenure that Lucia is now trying to work through. I think the current state has far more to do with him and other circumstances (such as additional Div I colleges in the state) than anything related to the quality of players being produced in state.

[4four4]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Only 6 of the 29 players at the USA Under 20 Camp are from Minnesota this week.

MN 6
MI 6
MA 3
NY 3
NJ 2
ILL 1
NV 1
OK 1
CA 1
MO 1
TX 1
WA 1
GA 1
OR 1

Compared to the 1980 USA Olympic Team

MN 12
MI 3
MA 4
WI 1

Only 6? That is still tied for the most. The game of hockey has changed and we will continue to see other non traditional hockey states have an elite player or two playing on the WJ team.

The fact of the matter is the state of Minnesota has the most Division 1 hockey players playing in the NCAA, the most NHL draft picks and players playing in pro hockey at all levels.

[Puck Swami]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

NCAA players don't need more games. More games doesn't always make you a better player, but more practice does. College kids already get twice the practice time and weight room time that MJ players get, and they play against older and stronger players. Smart NHL GMs know this, but the reality is that most NHL player development people came up through major junior, and they prefer that route because they know it better, they can control it better and they know the people in it better. It's human nature to stay with what you know.

Until more college-route GMs get hired by NHL teams, we wont see big change.

College hockey needs to do a better job selling its benefits.