RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Well, the Ivy League did just hire a marketing agency for the first time in conference history...

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...vy-League.aspx




I dont know how/if hockey will play into all this but considering they have a history with NBC Sports (Versus) its not really a surprise that all the Friday night games they aired featuring the ECAC were Ivy schools except for the two times they showed RPI. None of the other non-ivys made it on NBC Sports this season. I think it will be interesting how next years tv schedule looks.

I suspect that in some rinks it would be difficult to place enough cameras (e.g., Messa).

[burgie12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

RPI completely shut out in the regular-season awards. (Announcement)

Dartmouth was the other team to not garner any awards.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

RPI completely shut out in the regular-season awards. (Announcement)

Dartmouth was the other team to not garner any awards.

Not really surprising, although I thought that Leonard was deserving of the rookie team. However defensive defenseman rarely get picked.

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

What are those reasons that are so different than the last 25+ years? As for TV, the Ivies don't even have a league tournament in hoops or participate in FB post-season. The basketball teams are one-and-done 9 years out of 10 in the NCAAs. If they aren't interested in maximizing visibility in those sports, I don't think the lack of a TV contract for post-season hockey is very high on their list. Besides, there are invariably some Ivy teams in the ECAC semis, so if they were a big TV attraction we'd already have a contract.

Relatively simple answer-things are not the same now as they have been for the last 25+ years. Just look at how the ECAC stacks up against the other conferences. That was not always the case. When HE first split off the ECAC was a highly rated conference that could usually count on 2 or even 3 teams every year in the NCAA tournament. Now they are very fortunate to get the 1 single bid for the ECAC tournament champion(and even that bid is one of the lower seeds). Second, in the early years of the ECAC the Ivies were not the dominating teams in the league. It was a good mix with a strong set of North Country teams and RPI and Colgate vying for the top spots along with a couple of Ivies. Now the league is Ivy dominated. They can of course get an auto bid if one of the teams wins out but not much chance of a second Ivy getting a bid. With their own conference, playing each other more often and a select OOC conference-i can see them getting at least 2 bids most of the time. But the post that redhead made gives an even better indication of how they might be thinking at this time-a separation to make media deals involving the 'Ivy Brand' seems not only possible, but likely. Just because they honored the ECAC by hanging in there for 25 years means little in this rapidly changing environment. Ask yourself this-Why would it make sense for teams in the other big leagues to leave and form their own conference? The times, they are a-changing.

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

I suspect that in some rinks it would be difficult to place enough cameras (e.g., Messa).

Aside from the fact that NBC is looking for a national audience-and let's face it-Harvard, Yale, Cornell etc all have more national recognition that RPI, Union etc. It is mostly about ratings. There are still lots of people in this country who think RPI is a military school somewhere.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Aside from the fact that NBC is looking for a national audience-and let's face it-Harvard, Yale, Cornell etc all have more national recognition that RPI, Union etc. It is mostly about ratings. There are still lots of people in this country who think RPI is a military school somewhere.

Of course one other thing is that you can talk about recent alumni with certain teams. With RPI, probably a couple mentions of Adam Oates and Joé Juneau (although I never saw either game on TV), not to mention some national championship banners bring a little bit of eye candy. They showed UVM a couple times despite finishing in the basement of HEA, take a look at some of their alumni from the 90's (Martin St. Louis for example). Harvard/Yale is a classic rivalry, so why not show it? Of course with RPI and Yale, a recent tournament appearance didn't hurt matters.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Relatively simple answer-things are not the same now as they have been for the last 25+ years. Just look at how the ECAC stacks up against the other conferences. That was not always the case. When HE first split off the ECAC was a highly rated conference that could usually count on 2 or even 3 teams every year in the NCAA tournament. Now they are very fortunate to get the 1 single bid for the ECAC tournament champion(and even that bid is one of the lower seeds). Second, in the early years of the ECAC the Ivies were not the dominating teams in the league. It was a good mix with a strong set of North Country teams and RPI and Colgate vying for the top spots along with a couple of Ivies. Now the league is Ivy dominated. They can of course get an auto bid if one of the teams wins out but not much chance of a second Ivy getting a bid. With their own conference, playing each other more often and a select OOC conference-i can see them getting at least 2 bids most of the time. But the post that redhead made gives an even better indication of how they might be thinking at this time-a separation to make media deals involving the 'Ivy Brand' seems not only possible, but likely. Just because they honored the ECAC by hanging in there for 25 years means little in this rapidly changing environment. Ask yourself this-Why would it make sense for teams in the other big leagues to leave and form their own conference? The times, they are a-changing.

I think that 2004 was the only time that the ECAC had only one team in the tourney since it went to 16 teams. There have been several years, like this year, when the ECAC has been in danger of only one representative, but in all other cases, there have been at least two. This year, I think that we are just as likely to get three as one, but most likely there will be two. The big problem is that in most recent years, RPI has not been even remotely close to a bid.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Aside from the fact that NBC is looking for a national audience-and let's face it-Harvard, Yale, Cornell etc all have more national recognition that RPI, Union etc. It is mostly about ratings. There are still lots of people in this country who think RPI is a military school somewhere.

Harvard, Yale, Cornell, etc. certainly have more national recognition than RPI, Union, etc., but not much in high level major intercollegiate sports these days. I don't think that any of the 12 have any national recognition as athletic powers, and since hardly anyone cares about hockey, that is another strike. Then again, the AHA will be televised, and all they have is are the military schools and UConn (any maybe Holy Cross). Perhaps some casual sports fans would watch a game with UConn thinking that they must be a national power, but they would be wrong. I can't believe an RIT-Bentley game would attract more viewers than Cornell-Union.

[Jasma]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Relatively simple answer-things are not the same now as they have been for the last 25+ years. Just look at how the ECAC stacks up against the other conferences. That was not always the case. When HE first split off the ECAC was a highly rated conference that could usually count on 2 or even 3 teams every year in the NCAA tournament. Now they are very fortunate to get the 1 single bid for the ECAC tournament champion(and even that bid is one of the lower seeds). Second, in the early years of the ECAC the Ivies were not the dominating teams in the league. It was a good mix with a strong set of North Country teams and RPI and Colgate vying for the top spots along with a couple of Ivies. Now the league is Ivy dominated. They can of course get an auto bid if one of the teams wins out but not much chance of a second Ivy getting a bid. With their own conference, playing each other more often and a select OOC conference-i can see them getting at least 2 bids most of the time. But the post that redhead made gives an even better indication of how they might be thinking at this time-a separation to make media deals involving the 'Ivy Brand' seems not only possible, but likely. Just because they honored the ECAC by hanging in there for 25 years means little in this rapidly changing environment. Ask yourself this-Why would it make sense for teams in the other big leagues to leave and form their own conference? The times, they are a-changing.

All very compelling arguments, and I tend to agree that it is only a matter of time, 2-3 years at the most, before the Ivies bolt fromthe ECAC. One posible issue is non-league games. With only six teams, they would either have to play every other team 4 times (20 league games) or schedule a ton of non-leaguers and that could be tough. Another possiblity is that the 6 Ivies could pull one or two ECAC teams with them (Colgate) and maybe add Holy Cross, but that is much less likely.

The Big 10 and the new conference in the west will also be smaller, but they will likely add teams. I would also expect that they will continue some of the traditional matchups in tournaments and non-league arrangements.

The Ivies are not likely to look to schools like Bently, Canisius, etc to fill our their 29-game schedules. This will certainly be interesting to watch. If the Ivies were to pull out, the remaining teams would have to go get RIT, Canisius, Niagara and perhaps others to form a league that would look more like Atlantic Hockey than HE or the ECAC.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

All very compelling arguments, and I tend to agree that it is only a matter of time, 2-3 years at the most, before the Ivies bolt fromthe ECAC. One posible issue is non-league games. With only six teams, they would either have to play every other team 4 times (20 league games) or schedule a ton of non-leaguers and that could be tough. Another possiblity is that the 6 Ivies could pull one or two ECAC teams with them (Colgate) and maybe add Holy Cross, but that is much less likely.

The Big 10 and the new conference in the west will also be smaller, but they will likely add teams. I would also expect that they will continue some of the traditional matchups in tournaments and non-league arrangements.

The Ivies are not likely to look to schools like Bently, Canisius, etc to fill our their 29-game schedules. This will certainly be interesting to watch. If the Ivies were to pull out, the remaining teams would have to go get RIT, Canisius, Niagara and perhaps others to form a league that would look more like Atlantic Hockey than HE or the ECAC.

I would be very surprised if the Ivies would not go with a 20-game league schedule if theys stepped out on their own. As to adding Colgate and Holy Cross, I suppose that is possible since they play Patriot League schools in other sports, but I tend to doubt that they would view it much differently than the current setup.

Edit: I really should stop trying to figure what the Ivy admins are thinking -- I don't even know what Shirley is thinking.

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

I think that 2004 was the only time that the ECAC had only one team in the tourney since it went to 16 teams. There have been several years, like this year, when the ECAC has been in danger of only one representative, but in all other cases, there have been at least two. This year, I think that we are just as likely to get three as one, but most likely there will be two. The big problem is that in most recent years, RPI has not been even remotely close to a bid.

Whatever the numbers are I agree with the good Doc that we're seeing this league disintegrate right in front of our eyes. Apparently Fat Mike is upset about the tourney not being televised and to me his no confidence vote on this issue is a big deal. My macro point is we need to figure out what we're going to do because I don't want to have to scramble like the teams in the CCHA had to do when Miami, UM and Notre dame made their moves.

[redhead18]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

All very compelling arguments, and I tend to agree that it is only a matter of time, 2-3 years at the most, before the Ivies bolt fromthe ECAC. One posible issue is non-league games. With only six teams, they would either have to play every other team 4 times (20 league games) or schedule a ton of non-leaguers and that could be tough. Another possiblity is that the 6 Ivies could pull one or two ECAC teams with them (Colgate) and maybe add Holy Cross, but that is much less likely.

I can see a 20 game league schedule with 9 non conference games. HEA will have a bunch of extra games to fill, so I dont think that will be a problem. They could also get creative and schedule a series against a school they are also playing in football or basketball that same weekend. Say Cornell is hosting Dartmouth in football, schedule the two game home series against Dartmouth that same weekend to try and get more visiting fans to travel, etc... For a conference tournament, just have the highest seed host the remaining 5 teams and have a setup similar to the WCHA with two play-in games on Thurday and semis and finals on Fri/Sat. Or Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport could be a nice location as well.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

Whatever the numbers are I agree with the good Doc that we're seeing this league disintegrate right in front of our eyes. Apparently Fat Mike is upset about the tourney not being televised and to me his no confidence vote on this issue is a big deal. My macro point is we need to figure out what we're going to do because I don't want to have to scramble like the teams in the CCHA had to do when Miami, UM and Notre dame made their moves.

I do agree that we ahve to be proactive. The problem is that I don't think there is much we can do now. If we could sell ourselves to HE, that would be great (note the little blurb under my handle), but they will probably wait for UConn to descide waht they will do, and if UConn isn't going to upgrade their program, they will wait for another name school to start one. I dont think that we would consider joining the new WCHA due to travel, and the AHA would be worse than staying where we are.

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

This is always my worst weekend of the the year. The week after we are eliminated from play.
For months I look forward to Friday night and an Engineer hockey game, and now nothing.
As for new leagues, I just don't get it. There are going to be changes all accross the college hockey world, and the schools in the ECAC are not going to have much to say about it.
If we can't keep the league together, we will be begging for someone else to take us. Not good.
RPI has good hockey history, but recent years have left us behind. If we are going to be taken seriously by HE or another quality league, we are going to have to improve quickly.
I think we can do that, but I also thought that the improvement started last year and would continue. Oh well.
When does the big 10 start play? I know a should know that, but I have forgotten, and it is easier to ask than to look it up.
When that starts, then the scramble will really be on for a number of schools to find a quality place to play.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2012: An Off-Season to Be Optimistic

This is always my worst weekend of the the year. The week after we are eliminated from play.
For months I look forward to Friday night and an Engineer hockey game, and now nothing.
As for new leagues, I just don't get it. There are going to be changes all accross the college hockey world, and the schools in the ECAC are not going to have much to say about it.
If we can't keep the league together, we will be begging for someone else to take us. Not good.
RPI has good hockey history, but recent years have left us behind. If we are going to be taken seriously by HE or another quality league, we are going to have to improve quickly.
I think we can do that, but I also thought that the improvement started last year and would continue. Oh well.
When does the big 10 start play? I know a should know that, but I have forgotten, and it is easier to ask than to look it up.
When that starts, then the scramble will really be on for a number of schools to find a quality place to play.

The Big Ten begins play in the 2013-14 season, as does the NCHC. This next year is the last year of the old setup.