2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!

[BadgerFan11]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Kudo's to all Top 3 Finalists. I have spent sometime looking at the overall stats after reading some of the posts here. Here is what I have to say. Most people didn't even look at Stack as a top 3 finalist (including myself) I thought it would be Agosta, Duggan and Knight based on points alone. But after studying the statistics it has lead me to believe that Stack has had the greatest impact on her team overall. If Stack did not play for BC they would not even be a 500 team. Here are some staggering stats IMO. Just food for thought but they are amazing stats when you look at the big picture.

Number of Players on each team in the top 50 in scoring:

Wiso: 5 Mercyhurst: 7 BC: 2

Goals Scored By Team:

Wiso: 203 Mercyhurst: 175 BC: 100 (I mean Stack has scored 1/3 of her teams goals!!!) I believe if BC had 1 or 2 more players in the top 50 that Stacks points would be through the roof in both goals and assists.

In Power Play % - Wisco and Mercyhurst are 1 and 2 while BC is 15.

Scoring Offense - Wisco 1@ 5.34, Mercyhurst 2@ 5.21 and BC 12@2.86

Duggan has played 5 more games than Agosta and 4 more than Stack.

Almost all of BC's games have been a goal differential of 1 to 2 goals the most being 4 once I believe. While both Mercyhurst and Wisco have had large goal differentials. Wisco beating teams by 10 at least 2 maybe 3 times.

Then there is the argument of the difficulty in league play, and strength of schedule. Everyone will have their opinion here. I think it speaks for itself. I will leave that for another post.

All are tremendous players but Stack to me has made the biggest impact to her team. In fact the statistics blew me away today. Congrats to all 3 Finalist.

Looking forward to some great hockey this weekend in Boston.

"the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey. Other selection criteria include outstanding individual and team skills, sportsmanship, performance in the clutch, personal character, competitiveness and a love of hockey. Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement."

this is not a "best impact for her team" award. it is the best player (on and off the ice) in D1 womens hockey. Put Stack in the WCHA and see what imact she would have against top talent. Frankly, i imagined that past indiscretions (see above bolded text in description) would have and should have removed a player from such a momentous award because while the best hockey players deserve it, the best players who are also great students, leaders and community advocates deserve it more. i'm incredibly surprised to not see Knight in this top 3. or even Schaus / Fortino before Stack.

Either way, its clear that this is a two-person race at this point so theres not much use in arguing the above point. For pure hockey skills, the race is very close. Agost is the best goal scorer in the country and is an amazing offensive talent, there is no arguing that (until Knight takes that crown). However, Duggan's well rounded, unselfish play in both the offensive and defensive zones give her a slight edge IMO.
Because their offensive on-ice talents are so close, the difference-maker will come down to the intangibles. namely Sportsmanship, leadership, and other important off-ice talents. Its no surprise that Wisco suffered drastically without Johnson, Knight and Duggan last year. And Wisconsin players, coaches and administration has made no secret of the fact that the return of Duggan's leadership was the key ingredient in going from a 2009 team that missed the playoffs, to the best team in the country in 2010.

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Kudo's to all Top 3 Finalists. I have spent sometime looking at the overall stats after reading some of the posts here. Here is what I have to say. Most people didn't even look at Stack as a top 3 finalist (including myself) I thought it would be Agosta, Duggan and Knight based on points alone. But after studying the statistics it has lead me to believe that Stack has had the greatest impact on her team overall. If Stack did not play for BC they would not even be a 500 team. Here are some staggering stats IMO. Just food for thought but they are amazing stats when you look at the big picture.

...
Then there is the argument of the difficulty in league play, and strength of schedule. Everyone will have their opinion here. I think it speaks for itself. I will leave that for another post.

All are tremendous players but Stack to me has made the biggest impact to her team. In fact the statistics blew me away today. Congrats to all 3 Finalist.

I agree with your analysis on Stack, complete with "overlooking her as a Top 3 Finalist most of the season."

I think you can make a strong case that Stack has performed better offensively than anyone in women's college hockey history with a comparable level of talent or worse around her. That doesn't necessarily mean I think she deserves the award though. Duggan has also performed exceptionally, and though she has more talent around her than Stack, Duggan has made appropriate use of that talent around her.

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Frankly, i imagined that past indiscretions (see above bolded text in description) would have and should have removed a player from such a momentous award because while the best hockey players deserve it, the best players who are also great students, leaders and community advocates deserve it more.

Frankly, I don't see how one's personal mistakes from 2007, whatever they may be, matter in the selection of the 2010-11 Patty Kazmaier Award. I also don't recall Kelli Stack ever suffering any suspension or punishment from Boston College. I've read nothing but positive things from her coach and her opponents about her character this season.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 10 FINALISTS ANNOUNCED

Can you truly be the second top-three finalist from Mercyhurst if you were three times previous the first?

I had to read that tong twister carefully twice, but IMHO the answer to your query should be No.

Personally I'm shocked Knight is not on this list.

[ARM]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Duggan has also performed exceptionally, and though she has more talent around her than Stack, Duggan has made appropriate use of that talent around her.

Where Duggan has stood out for me is how she has performed in games where Wisconsin has been trailing. When UW fell behind Ohio State 3-1 early this season, Duggan scored 15 seconds later and then had primary assists on a goal to make it 4-4 in the third and the OT gamewinner. When they trailed UMD 2-0, she had a primary assist and then scored to make it 2-2 with 25 seconds to go. Then in the big comeback in the WCHA championhip, she had a second period goal plus scored to tie it with under 5 to play. Given Wisconsin hasn't had too many times where they've been behind, she's risen to the occasion when they have.

[RStarr]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

this is not a "best impact for her team" award. it is the best player (on and off the ice) in D1 womens hockey. Put Stack in the WCHA and see what imact she would have against top talent.

Overall, she would be playing with stronger teammates, so I would expect her contribution to increase even more. And why does everything always have to be in comparison to the WCHA? The earth does not revolve around the WCHA, despite what you homers might think.

incredibly surprised to not see....Schaus / Fortino before Stack.

Totally agreed. Its beyond sad and pathetic (and a few other things) that the Kaz committee can't use the guidelines to pick out a more diverse group. Weak azz effort. *****http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2139/yawncm.gif******

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Where Duggan has stood out for me is how she has performed in games where Wisconsin has been trailing. When UW fell behind Ohio State 3-1 early this season, Duggan scored 15 seconds later and then had primary assists on a goal to make it 4-4 in the third and the OT gamewinner. When they trailed UMD 2-0, she had a primary assist and then scored to make it 2-2 with 25 seconds to go. Then in the big comeback in the WCHA championhip, she had a second period goal plus scored to tie it with under 5 to play. Given Wisconsin hasn't had too many times where they've been behind, she's risen to the occasion when they have.

Exactly.

As for those who are surprised that Knight didn't make it, I would add
(1) it's very hard to get Kaz top 3 votes when you're not the recognized leader of your team and there are three strong candidates who are
(2) 20 of the 32 legit D-I teams are in Hockey East and ECAC, and committee representation is somewhat proportional, so if there's a clear top eastern candidate she's going to get votes
(3) this is the first year conference championship results were under consideration for Kaz. Duggan, Stack, and Agosta all had very decisive impacts in close conference tournament games to top off seasons in which they each also won their league player of the year awards.

Knight probably has a better shot at First Team All-American than she did as the Kaz 3, though I'm guessing most likely the All-American voting will go the same way.

Fun fact: I believe the top 3 NCAA era single-season goal-scoring efforts were Corriero 59 in 2004, Knight 46 & counting this season, and Knight 45 last season, and none made the Kaz 3.

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Totally agreed. Its beyond sad and pathetic (and a few other things) that the Kaz committee can't use the guidelines to pick out a more diverse group. Weak azz effort. *****http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2139/yawncm.gif******

So which three would you have picked?

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Overall, she would be playing with stronger teammates, so I would expect her contribution to increase even more.

That's usually the case.

If Duggan had spent her career at BC and Stack had spent her career at Wisconsin, how do you all think would each have performed this season? It's pretty hard to tell, but my guess is Stack would have performed worse than Duggan did at Wisconsin, and Duggan would have performed worse than Stack did at BC, just because both players did perform so well in their specific circumstances.

[BadgerFan11]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

So which three would you have picked?

you're even asking? RStarr would clearly have picked Bauer, Bauer and Bauer. with a close 4/5 being stack and Schaus

[ARM]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Fun fact: I believe the top 3 NCAA era single-season goal-scoring efforts were Corriero 59 in 2004, Knight 46 & counting this season, and Knight 45 last season, and none made the Kaz 3.

The trend continues beyond the NCAA era. Muzerall didn't make the top 10 when she scored 49 goals in 2000.

[Travelingman]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

BadgerFan11 I am sorry you feel that way. My post specifically states on ice play. It is undeniable what Stack has done statistics wise in her circumstance. BC does not make playoffs, does not make NCAA's probably doesn't even finish .500. Scoring a third of your teams goals is a pretty big weight to carry on your shoulders. I happen to be from the east and I am a big fan but I am also a big fan of Meghan Duggan and Hillary Knight. I have watched all of these players for many years and their success has come from hard work and dedication as has Agosta's. Overall - speed, strength, power, prolific scoring ability etc. Agosta is probably the favorite. I don't think you can compare Duggan and Stack they have completely different playing styles. If you take everything off ice into consideration then out of the 3 Duggan is probably the favorite. I know BadgerFan11 that you are just that a huge BadgerFan. I just wanted to bring to the table the stats and how they show in Stack's favor. I am sure the committee will make the correct choice. In the east here we love our hockey too and we also believe in forgiveness. It is time to move forward in a positive direction. The sport certainly is. I am looking forward to seeing Duggan, Stack and Knight suit up for the red, white and blue. The three of these ladies on a line should be able to put up some numbers.

[RStarr]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

RStarr would clearly have picked Bauer, Bauer and Bauer.

*****http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9614/mwade.jpg******

[leafsfan]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

The trend continues beyond the NCAA era. Muzerall didn't make the top 10 when she scored 49 goals in 2000.

Of the final 3 Agosta's the best, Duggan is very good and Stack is nowhere near either one of these two players.

[WHKY blogger]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: FINAL THREE Agosta, Duggan, Stack

Sign this petition:

http://www.petitionfree.com/petition...usa-hockey/222