Coach of the Year

[Trillium]

Re: Coach of the Year

I guess I would agree with your point, but it was Rick who brought her in right?

Well, sort of. That is an interesting story. Technically it was actually the assistant coach who deserves the credit for that, who saw her playing lights out at Nationals (in November of her senior year!) and convinced her to commit at the end of that tournament-- although she'd never even seen the school. I guess Rick gets credit for trusting his assistant's judgement.

As everyone now knows she is truly a great prize. Those of us familiar with her play in the PWHL always knew this. Shockingly, most D1 coaches apparently failed to see it, perhaps forgetting that great players often come in unlikely small packages, or not being sufficiently skilled in evaluating goalies. So Qpac didn't have any competition for her services when they approached her in November, believe it or not. She committed sight unseen to the opportunity, fell in love with the school later, and the rest as they say is history.

[IceIsNice]

Re: Coach of the Year

Shockingly, most D1 coaches apparently failed to see it, perhaps forgetting that great players often come in unlikely small packages, or not being sufficiently skilled in evaluating goalies.

Not so shocking actually, but....please do read this in the right spirit....

This is NOT a knock on coaches....I repeat, this is NOT a knock.

Many, many coaches, if they are honest, have great difficulty assessing the fine differences in goalie prospects. Probably in part because they are simply not experienced in the position, but I think even moreso because the environment of the women's game just doesn't give them the opportunity to fully evaluate a player.

For example, there is the goalie who plays for a team that has not been successful either due to coaching or simply due to the talent in front of her, and so she doesn't get to play in the marquis games where people notice that she is making 63 out of 70 saves en route to a 7-0 loss.

Then there are the goalies who's teams are so strong that they surrender single digit shots on goal, plus they manage to sweep the rebounds away before you can judge their goalie's recovery technique.

It's a challenge! Simple as that! Congrats to Qunnipiac for finding a diamond in the rough!

[Trillium]

Re: Coach of the Year

Not so shocking actually, but....please do read this in the right spirit....

This is NOT a knock on coaches....I repeat, this is NOT a knock.

Many, many coaches, if they are honest, have great difficulty assessing the fine differences in goalie prospects. Probably in part because they are simply not experienced in the position, but I think even moreso because the environment of the women's game just doesn't give them the opportunity to fully evaluate a player.

For example, there is the goalie who plays for a team that has not been successful either due to coaching or simply due to the talent in front of her, and so she doesn't get to play in the marquis games where people notice that she is making 63 out of 70 saves en route to a 7-0 loss.

Then there are the goalies who's teams are so strong that they surrender single digit shots on goal, plus they manage to sweep the rebounds away before you can judge their goalie's recovery technique.

It's a challenge! Simple as that! Congrats to Qunnipiac for finding a diamond in the rough!

Well, I get that evaluating goalies may not be as easy as evaluating forwards, especially as most coaches never played the position. And that it may be difficult in assessing the relative strengths and potential between a goalie ranked #8 and #15 in save percentage or GAA.

But the PWHL DOES make it pretty easy. It's easy to check how every goalie ranks in stats, and how many shots and saves each has to make. Also, if you happened to ask anyone in the rinks (even non-goalie experts), they could have told you Vigilanti was one of the top 2-3 goalies in the entire league, without any doubt. And we all know how well previous top PWHL goalies have done in D1.

So I am shocked. And there's another couple of top PWHL goalies they missed out on again this year. These should be no-brainers.

[ARM]

Re: Coach of the Year

And there's another couple of top PWHL goalies they missed out on again this year. These should be no-brainers.

There are only so many scholarships and even spots for goalies in D-I. More than at any other position, talented goalies fall through the cracks. Sometimes because teams miss them, at other times because many teams don't have a scholarship available for a goalie in a given class.

Doug Derraugh is now officially in the Coach of the Year conversation. If Cornell continues to play like they did tonight, the conversation may begin and end with him.

[Trillium]

Re: Coach of the Year

There are only so many scholarships and even spots for goalies in D-I. More than at any other position, talented goalies fall through the cracks. Sometimes because teams miss them, at other times because many teams don't have a scholarship available for a goalie in a given class.

Also agreed. There is simply not room for everyone in D1, and not everyone would be satisfied with a partial. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking cream of the crop only, despite the fact that lesser talents still see interest.

This still doesn't explain why proven top goalies are often passed over for those same limited slots by lesser ones they competed with, but who again fail to impress at the next level.

There are still a great many D-1 teams with less than stellar goaltending. To build a contending team, you need to start from the net out. The goalie that started this discussion is *only* the ECAC goalie of the year, for cryin' out loud! And only a rookie. And just about got missed.

In another recent well-known example, a local Midget goalie was actually selected over a couple of top PWHL goalies who would have jumped at the chance to go there as their first choice two years in a row ....and not surprisingly that team has since plummeted in the standings. We're talking night and day differences in talent.

[Blackbeard]

Re: Coach of the Year

Also agreed. There is simply not room for everyone in D1, and not everyone would be satisfied with a partial. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking cream of the crop only, despite the fact that lesser talents still see interest.

This still doesn't explain why proven top goalies are often passed over for those same limited slots by lesser ones they competed with, but who again fail to impress at the next level.

There are still a great many D-1 teams with less than stellar goaltending. To build a contending team, you need to start from the net out. The goalie that started this discussion is *only* the ECAC goalie of the year, for cryin' out loud! And only a rookie. And just about got missed.

In another recent well-known example, a local Midget goalie was actually selected over a couple of top PWHL goalies who would have jumped at the chance to go there as their first choice two years in a row ....and not surprisingly that team has since plummeted in the standings. We're talking night and day differences in talent.

I think a major part of the answer to your question can be summed up by saying this...to their credit (and maybe in the interest of self preservation) every coach that I have every known, many of whom were extremely knowledgeable and had devoted large portions of their lives to the game with respect to both playing and coaching, during the initial sit down meeting with all the team parents the purpose of which was to discuss and make clear their plans and goals for the season that was about to begin, made the following strong disclosure..."and I also want to make it perfectly clear that I know absolutely nothing about goaltending."

I don't think that there is any reason to believe that that changes much the higher up the coaching ladder one climbs, unless of course the coach in question was once a goaltender.

Goaltending is a skill and a mind set that is on another planet compared to the rest of the team which is why there are goaltending coaches.

Another point is that some players at the midget level start getting goaltending coaching and some do not. While one can generalize by saying that the more talented ones end up getting such advanced coaching it is just a generalization...some athletically talented players end up not getting such coaching whether it be due to financial constraints or whatever else. These players do not have a goaltending coach that a team coach can speak to about them. Those that do have a goaltending coach that a team coach can potentially talk to to get an informed opinion of that particular player now have someone who can compensate for the team coach's lack of knowledge and the existence of this relationship now acts as a bridge between the player and the team coach over the empty chasm below that represents the team coach's lack of knowledge.

Secondly, as an unintended consequence of a goaltender having a higher profiled advanced goaltending coach, this relationship can perform a promotional function of sorts when team coach's do come calling. So, equally talented players at one level who do not get advanced coaching very quickly get left behind in the technical skills department and, as a result, in the name recognition department and almost immediately fall off everyone's radar screen.

[OnMAA]

Re: Coach of the Year

Then there are the goalies who's teams are so strong that they surrender single digit shots on goal, plus they manage to sweep the rebounds away before you can judge their goalie's recovery technique.

It's a challenge! Simple as that! Congrats to Qunnipiac for finding a diamond in the rough!

The "Diamond in the Rough" was a well known commodity for many years in Ontario, even back in the day when she played at Etobicoke before moving
on to Missy.

I'm with Trillium. Both last year and this year several top notch goalies from Ontario seemed to be passed over for lesser ones.

Just look around the ECAC and you will find that many first stringers and key backups are from Ontario. Mazotta, Seguin, Jamieson, Vigilante, van den Bliek, Plenderleith, Kessler, Ladiges.

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Coach of the Year

Looking at goalie selection as a critical skill for successful teams, it seems that the coach who can consistently identify goalies who are productive will have a long career.

I agree that there are many coaches who get put in charge of selecting goalies who do a poor job. Much of that is based upon insufficient observation. As someone mentioned, observing a goalie whose defense does a good job of clearing rebounds or keeping the shot count and quality down makes it difficult to evaluate how they will perform under less than ideal circumstances.

On the other hand, goalies who spend their career fighting fire after fire often don't develop the mental conditioning necessary to play on a team where shots are few and far between, challenging their focus.

And ultimately, when it comes down to choosing a goalie on limited based upon limited observation, the choice will be made based upon which program the goalie came from. Some coaches figure it is more forgivable to have a blue-chipper come up short than be asked what they saw in the diamond in the rough.

And this mentality not only is found in college coaching, but in coaching at all levels including national camp selection.

Kudos to the coaches who look long and hard enough at goalies and have the guts to go with what they see.

[ARM]

Re: Coach of the Year

Doug Derraugh is now officially in the Coach of the Year conversation. If Cornell continues to play like they did tonight, the conversation may begin and end with him.

He gets my vote.

[mattj711]

Re: Coach of the Year

He gets my vote.

You were right. Derraugh was named the ACHA D1 coach of the year.

http://www.ahcahockey.com/news/0910/0324w1cy.html

Congrats to Derraugh. Seeley was the runner up. He obviously has also done remarkable work at Quinnipiac.

[Trillium]

Re: Coach of the Year

You were right. Derraugh was named the ACHA D1 coach of the year.

http://www.ahcahockey.com/news/0910/0324w1cy.html

Congrats to Derraugh. Seeley was the runner up. He obviously has also done remarkable work at Quinnipiac.

Two excellent choices. Congrats to both.

[The Prof]

Re: Coach of the Year

Also agreed. There is simply not room for everyone in D1, and not everyone would be satisfied with a partial. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking cream of the crop only, despite the fact that lesser talents still see interest.

This still doesn't explain why proven top goalies are often passed over for those same limited slots by lesser ones they competed with, but who again fail to impress at the next level.

There are still a great many D-1 teams with less than stellar goaltending. To build a contending team, you need to start from the net out. The goalie that started this discussion is *only* the ECAC goalie of the year, for cryin' out loud! And only a rookie. And just about got missed.

In another recent well-known example, a local Midget goalie was actually selected over a couple of top PWHL goalies who would have jumped at the chance to go there as their first choice two years in a row ....and not surprisingly that team has since plummeted in the standings. We're talking night and day differences in talent.

Trillium,

What you have not taken into account are marks. For many schools, despite the talent available, these can be the limiting factors. I imagine they played a part in both of these examples.

The Prof

[BTW67]

Re: Coach of the Year

You were right. Derraugh was named the ACHA D1 coach of the year.

http://www.ahcahockey.com/news/0910/0324w1cy.html

Congrats to Derraugh. Seeley was the runner up. He obviously has also done remarkable work at Quinnipiac.

Congratulations to Coach Derraugh! He's done an amazing job with the Cornell team.

[Trillium]

Re: Coach of the Year

Trillium,

What you have not taken into account are marks. For many schools, despite the talent available, these can be the limiting factors. I imagine they played a part in both of these examples.

The Prof

Nope, I am well aware of that issue. Marks don't fully explain it either, though I know this does limit the top schools to some extent. I've seen better goalies bypassed who could get into McGill than others who were taken D1...which means they could have gotten into any Ivy too.

In one of the examples I gave, the goalie who really wanted to go there but was bypassed, in favour of one who is struggling in net, is now doing exceptionally well playing at an Ivy school. She had great marks and scores.

In the other example, there were far weaker schools academically who needed goalies and showed no interest, than the one she eventually caught on with and stole games for.

The trend continues. One of the Ontario goalies who just played a big part in stoning Team Canada U18's this week and was part of the summer TC camps, is incredibly still available this year.

As are 6 of the top 10 graduating goalies by save % in the PWHL. A couple of these have marks that I know could easily get them admitted to Ivys; others who I know are looking at some of the better schools at home, so marks can't be what's holding them back.

So, basically the only explanation in most cases is that coaches just do a really poor job of goalie recruiting.

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Coach of the Year

D1 Coach of the year...Arnprior, Ontario.

D3 Coach of the year...Red Deer, Alberta.

Hmmmm.