Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At It

[ericredaxe]

Where's Donnie's big economic recovery plan? I mean, he's had months to be working on it. Just like he's had months to do something about ramping up testing, and putting a contact tracing program in place.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

[rufus]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

No ****. But I don't care what you think, no matter how much you open up, you aren't gonna have an economic recovery when you have ~1500 people dying from this virus every single day.

[The Rube]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

You know why those counties have had only 2 cases, and 2 recoveries? Cause there aren't tons of people going up there and bringing the virus with them. When tons of people start going there, as you want, conditions change.

That's why I don't want the Mass-holes and the rest of the tourists coming to my town. Cause they can't be counted on to do the right thing and quarantine, social distance, and all the other things that need to be done to prevent the spread of this virus.

We've all seen the pictures. I don't want that in my town.

And, Mr Haterade, if there is a very close group of people who have known each other for 15~ years, and know that everyone has sanitized, done curbside, wore masks, etc...it's a bit different than attending someplace with some random person that may have not taken those precautions. Believe it or not, I'd trust you more than some Jim Billy Bob in Kentucky to follow protocol. (now I have to douse myself in bleach, and not because of coronavirus reasons )

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

And, Mr Haterade, if there is a very close group of people who have known each other for 15~ years, and know that everyone has sanitized, done curbside, wore masks, etc...it's a bit different than attending someplace with some random person that may have not taken those precautions. Believe it or not, I'd trust you more than some Jim Billy Bob in Kentucky to follow protocol. (now I have to douse myself in bleach, and not because of coronavirus reasons )

Yes, your group of 30 is fine. What what about the people that are in the resort the week before? Or the week after? They infect the innkeeper who then infects their family and staff. And because it's the Backwoods, MI, odds are they went down to the Houghton Wal-mart and spread it there too. And now a place with just 10 hospital beds has to deal with this...

It sucks to admit, but all it takes is ONE person to tumble the house of cards here.

[SJHovey]

First, I'm as much a Trump hater as anyone on this site. However, I think the tone you guys (and Deutsche) are addressing "eric" with is a little strong. He hasn't attacked anyone here, at least not today. I have no problem with any of us expressing anger or frustration in a direct or forceful manner -- like the way NDHockey did earlier -- but, unless someone truly starts it first, we shouldn't be "attacking" anyone who's discussing or debating us in a respectful manner.

Hovey, in regards to your comment about opening up vs protecting human life being an "either/or argument"; unfortunately, if you strip it down to the nitty gritty, that's exactly what the argument is. Now, before any of you get too excited, let me clarify. Until we either get a vaccine or a therapeutic that literally keeps 99.9999% of anyone who gets it from going to ICU, the ONLY way to truly limit/minimize the spread is to (other than front line workers) completely shut everything down and limit people from leaving their homes to either grocery shopping, medications, or genuine health emergencies. However, we've obviously seen what that does to our economy. So Hovey, although it may make you uncomfortable to have to think about it as an "either/or" argument, that's exactly what it is.

The reality is, our government could choose a different way to address the economic challenges that come with keeping things shut down for an extensive period of time that would genuinely limit the damage to both individuals and small businesses. But, those currently in power -- especially in the Republican party -- are far more concerned with maintaining that power for the 1%. It's really that simple. So sure, based on the path they have chosen, the only way to "save" the economy is to try and open it up. But that's the point, they CHOSE to take this path. So, it's only fair then to put them and (apparently you as well) on the spot by asking one simple question; what is the specific number of preventable/unnecessary deaths that would prevent you/them from opening up the economy? 50K, 500K, a million? I've asked this question to over 30 plus people in the last four weeks and, funny, literally not a single one has been willing to provide an answer. It sucks to have to assign a literal life or death value to earning a dollar but, that's the current reality we're living in. So Hovey, what do you say? Are you willing to provide a number?

You misread my post. I wasn’t attacking eric.

[Kepler]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

And, Mr Haterade, if there is a very close group of people who have known each other for 15~ years, and know that everyone has sanitized, done curbside, wore masks, etc...it's a bit different than attending someplace with some random person that may have not taken those precautions. Believe it or not, I'd trust you more than some Jim Billy Bob in Kentucky to follow protocol. (now I have to douse myself in bleach, and not because of coronavirus reasons )

I think knowing and trusting each other may be a false sense of security. The likelihood of transmission increases literally exponentially with group size, and you are all at the risk of any error or happenstance. And one person can easily become exposed despite best practices and their best intentions. So what you are doing is putting all your eggs in the basket of nothing going wrong, and something can go wrong.

With you segregated the consequence of that fluke is one. With you together, it's all of you (and then all the people you touch, and so on).

This is exactly analogous to STDs and number of partners. By grouping together you are all f-cking everybody every person in your group has f-cked. Except it is so much worse, because "f-cking" here equals touched a shopping cart, or a tree trunk, or was downwind at the exact wrong moment.

You're gambling with your life, son. We're not saying your friends or your host are irresponsible, we're saying sh-t happens.

[ericredaxe]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

No ****. But I don't care what you think, no matter how much you open up, you aren't gonna have an economic recovery when you have ~1500 people dying from this virus every single day.

I never said anything about how or when things opened up.

I questioned your "**** them" response when you were asked about the economic impact on business owners.

[rufus]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

I never said anything about how or when things opened up.

I questioned your "**** them" response when you were asked about the economic impact on business owners.

And that wasn't directed at business owners. It was directed at Mass-holes and other tourists potentially bringing the virus into my town.

[rufus]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

And, Mr Haterade, if there is a very close group of people who have known each other for 15~ years, and know that everyone has sanitized, done curbside, wore masks, etc...it's a bit different than attending someplace with some random person that may have not taken those precautions. Believe it or not, I'd trust you more than some Jim Billy Bob in Kentucky to follow protocol. (now I have to douse myself in bleach, and not because of coronavirus reasons )

Umm, no it isn't. Virus don't care who you know, or what precautions you've taken.

Only takes one. Something you still haven't seemed to figure out, after four months.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

First, I'm as much a Trump hater as anyone on this site. However, I think the tone you guys (and Deutsche) are addressing "eric" with is a little strong. He hasn't attacked anyone here, at least not today. I have no problem with any of us expressing anger or frustration in a direct or forceful manner -- like the way NDHockey did earlier -- but, unless someone truly starts it first, we shouldn't be "attacking" anyone who's discussing or debating us in a respectful manner.

Hovey, in regards to your comment about opening up vs protecting human life being an "either/or argument"; unfortunately, if you strip it down to the nitty gritty, that's exactly what the argument is. Now, before any of you get too excited, let me clarify. Until we either get a vaccine or a therapeutic that literally keeps 99.9999% of anyone who gets it from going to ICU, the ONLY way to truly limit/minimize the spread is to (other than front line workers) completely shut everything down and limit people from leaving their homes to either grocery shopping, medications, or genuine health emergencies. However, we've obviously seen what that does to our economy. So Hovey, although it may make you uncomfortable to have to think about it as an "either/or" argument, that's exactly what it is.

The reality is, our government could choose a different way to address the economic challenges that come with keeping things shut down for an extensive period of time that would genuinely limit the damage to both individuals and small businesses. But, those currently in power -- especially in the Republican party -- are far more concerned with maintaining that power for the 1%. It's really that simple. So sure, based on the path they have chosen, the only way to "save" the economy is to try and open it up. But that's the point, they CHOSE to take this path. So, it's only fair then to put them and (apparently you as well) on the spot by asking one simple question; what is the specific number of preventable/unnecessary deaths that would prevent you/them from opening up the economy? 50K, 500K, a million? I've asked this question to over 30 plus people in the last four weeks and, funny, literally not a single one has been willing to provide an answer. It sucks to have to assign a literal life or death value to earning a dollar but, that's the current reality we're living in. So Hovey, what do you say? Are you willing to provide a number?

I liked one comment that kep said- I’ve not once engaged or argued with Eric so not sure why you’re calling me out

[The Rube]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

Yes, your group of 30 is fine. What what about the people that are in the resort the week before? Or the week after? They infect the innkeeper who then infects their family and staff. And because it's the Backwoods, MI, odds are they went down to the Houghton Wal-mart and spread it there too. And now a place with just 10 hospital beds has to deal with this...

It sucks to admit, but all it takes is ONE person to tumble the house of cards here.

And you're assuming that the inn doesn't sanitize the hell out of everything. Clue: they do. They actually shut down a couple months ago, due to a possible scare. False alarm. Currently, they are working on outdoor seating in case they cannot open up, and have to follow patio seating rules. The owners are being more cautious than necessary, which is good.

[The Rube]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

Umm, no it isn't. Virus don't care who you know, or what precautions you've taken.

Only takes one. Something you still haven't seemed to figure out, after four months.

Ok, would you rather spend 15 minutes with some random person in a red state, or a nurse from the front line?

Yes, it makes a difference. One is almost guaranteed to not have followed protocol. Ups the chances of getting it.

[alfablue]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

Here's the funny thing- yes, a LOT of the economy is shut down. But there's enough going on that if taxed enough would support the out of work until things were in the clear. Easily.

There are a lot of industries that are making HUGE dough right now, and if people like Bezos were not sheltering everything off shore, there would be plenty to make sure that things were just kept going, and small companies would not shut down, permanently. Things are not 100% shut down. Last I checked, it's a very massive 25%.

But we don't have the stomach to prevent companies from flourishing when there's literal blood in the water. Or at least making them share in the profits while everyone is down. No matter how temporary, socialism of any type is the ultimate evil, apparently.

We easily have the means to turn off 25% of the economy for enough months for this to pass. For sure we had the means to do exactly what S Korea and Japan have done.

Except for the all mighty dollar. Greed isn't good. This is what you get when greed is in charge of steering the ship- we get our labor from Communist countries because of cheap, and we let people suffer when we can prevent them from suffering.

Yay, America.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

Yes, your group of 30 is fine. What what about the people that are in the resort the week before? Or the week after? They infect the innkeeper who then infects their family and staff. And because it's the Backwoods, MI, odds are they went down to the Houghton Wal-mart and spread it there too. And now a place with just 10 hospital beds has to deal with this...

It sucks to admit, but all it takes is ONE person to tumble the house of cards here.

For a point of clarification (dx and I are also in this group) this is one hotel of about 15 rooms and a small restaurant. Right now the hotel isn't even open and the restaurant is only open for takeout.

Still doesn't mean it's a good idea to go even if the owner decides to open up for us. There's a decent chance I won't just because I will have to go through to large airports just to get there.

[net presence]

Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

You misread my post. I wasn’t attacking eric.

Hovey, I obviously failed miserably in constructing my post. To clarify, I knew you weren't attacking eric. I actually felt others were being a little too terse in their tone in responding to him. The last 2 paragraphs of my post were actually in response to, what I assume was your sarcasm toward the group when you responded to Eric in describing what he could expect if he entered into the debate about "opening up" vs the "health" of individuals in our country.