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Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At It

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  • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

    Never change, rufus. I said there's no way to avoid deaths--just like with flu season. Unless, hey, maybe we should start having full lockdowns during flu season too?

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    • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

      Originally posted by net presence View Post
      Finally, the lead epidemiologist from Sweden who lead their decision making about keeping everything open and going for "herd immunity", is now acknowledging it was a mistake and that they should've enacted much stronger restrictions. The Guardian is now reporting that Sweden currently has the world's highest per capita death rate.
      Are there documented instances in history where the herd immunity philosophy has worked? If so, I can't really fault this guy/Sweden since the info on COVID seems to change all the time. For as smart as all these doctors are, even they don't have all the answers.

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      • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
        Are there documented instances in history where the herd immunity philosophy has worked? If so, I can't really fault this guy/Sweden since the info on COVID seems to change all the time. For as smart as all these doctors are, even they don't have all the answers.
        Polio requires 80-85% of herd to be vaccinated, measles around 90. It worked quite well until people decided it gave their kids autism

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        • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

          Originally posted by rufus View Post
          But now you're like, "oh well, nothing can be done"
          Tends to go hand-in-hand with the notion, "Both sides are bad, so vote Republican." (BSABSVR)

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          • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

            Originally posted by J.D. View Post
            Nor does it change the fact that we're stuck with Trump for a little longer.
            Yes we are stuck with tRump. He is one man. He is a sociopath, brilliant at media manipulation and it shows. The question is- Do we rollover and accept his unwillingness to lead and his absolute ineptitude to do so or do we call it out, keep pointing out facts, keep the eyes on the prize and not be distracted by all the stupid stunts he pulls?

            I have this conversation all the time with people- When someone is unwilling to be unprofessional/ do the right thing you have 2 choices. You can assume they will do the wrong thing and, without them ever having to say anything, react in a way to counter it -- OR-- you can make it very uncomfortable by continuing the conversation as if you expect them to do the right thing and when they don't call them out. Don't do the work for him. Make him or his mouthpieces say it. Point out the errors. Plant the seed.

            One of our failures as a nation is we have the attention span of a gnat, are under-educated and are way too willing to take the first course- cede the expectation the right things should be done and then try to put out the dump-ster fire that results. NO. Call out the misinformation, call out those who are willing to perpetuate it. Stop the assumption of defeat. You may be defeated every time- the guy is really brilliant with media manipulation, deflection (church-Bible- photo op which totally diffused the ability to concentrate only on his words which were reprehensible). But if you keep steady in the message and the expectation you may, just may, reach a few people.

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            • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

              Originally posted by J.D. View Post
              Are there documented instances in history where the herd immunity philosophy has worked? If so, I can't really fault this guy/Sweden since the info on COVID seems to change all the time. For as smart as all these doctors are, even they don't have all the answers.
              JD, although I agree that even our best minds have been off in certain areas of prediction or analysis of Covid, in this case the problem is there isn't any science that confirms any kind of immunity if you've already had it. Remember the 8 sailors from the Roosevelt that tested positive a second time? The challenge is there is still much we don't know about this virus. Also, as it relates to Sweden's decision to attempt the "herd immunity" route, there wasn't a single other expert that agreed with that approach.

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              • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                I was specifically referring to the potential for a billionaire tax while Trump is in office. I have no problem going at Trump and calling him out. He's a moron (yet I will still be thought of as a Trump supporter on here).

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                • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                  Originally posted by net presence View Post
                  JD, although I agree that even our best minds have been off in certain areas of prediction or analysis of Covid, in this case the problem is there isn't any science that confirms any kind of immunity if you've already had it. Remember the 8 sailors from the Roosevelt that tested positive a second time? The challenge is there is still much we don't know about this virus. Also, as it relates to Sweden's decision to attempt the "herd immunity" route, there wasn't a single other expert that agreed with that approach.
                  Not defending herd immunity approach nor saying we should have tried it here. I couldn't even tell you when a herd immunity approach has worked throughout history. Although I am assuming it has or it wouldn't be a "thing" to try at all.

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                  • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                    Never change, rufus. I said there's no way to avoid deaths--just like with flu season. Unless, hey, maybe we should start having full lockdowns during flu season too?
                    But there are ways. Just as in flu season, people get their flu shots.

                    You just don't want to do them because, "oh, they'll hurt the economy. How will people get by without work? How will businesses survive?"

                    There are ways to make sure businesses and people are ok. We just lack the will to do them. So much easier to just throw up your hands and say, "welp, people are gonna die. Cost of doing business. Can't do nuthin' 'bout it."
                    Last edited by rufus; 06-04-2020, 01:42 PM.
                    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                    • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                      Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                      Not defending herd immunity approach nor saying we should have tried it here. I couldn't even tell you when a herd immunity approach has worked throughout history. Although I am assuming it has or it wouldn't be a "thing" to try at all.
                      I am not sure it has been tried by choice when better options are available. The mistake Sweden (which I pointed out at the time and many others on here as well) is that do not have enough information to determine how to reach herd immunity. Basically when they did it, it was A+B+C=herd immunity but we didn't know A, B, or C.
                      In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'.

                      Originally posted by burd
                      I look at some people and I just know they do it doggy style. No way they're getting close to my kids.

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                      • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                        Originally posted by rufus View Post
                        But there are ways. Just as in flu season, people get their vaccines.

                        You just don't want to do them because, "oh, they'll hurt the economy. How will people get by without work? How will businesses survive?"

                        There are ways to make sure businesses and people are ok. We just lack the will to do them. So much easier to just throw up your hands and say, "welp, people are gonna die. Cost of doing business".
                        People get the flu vaccine and still get the flu. Still better off getting the vaccine but it doesn't solve everything. For COVID, people are wearing masks and companies are being forced to reinvent how they operate as it pertains to social distancing, cleaning etc. Just because I don't think an indefinite full lockdown is the way to go doesn't mean I don't support other measures to try and contain the spread. But I guess all these blue states reopening and doing a regional reopening have it wrong too.

                        And are you suggesting the billionaire tax too? If so, go for it! There's only one problem. It's not going to happen. At least not while Trump is in charge. I don't have the ability to remove him from office till late fall. 6 months away.

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                        • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                          People get the flu vaccine and still get the flu. Still better off getting the vaccine but it doesn't solve everything. For COVID, people are wearing masks and companies are being forced to reinvent how they operate as it pertains to social distancing, cleaning etc. Just because I don't think an indefinite full lockdown is the way to go doesn't mean I don't support other measures to try and contain the spread. But I guess all these blue states reopening and doing a regional reopening have it wrong too.

                          And are you suggesting the billionaire tax too? If so, go for it! There's only one problem. It's not going to happen. At least not while Trump is in charge. I don't have the ability to remove him from office till late fall. 6 months away.
                          Bernie wanted to tax billionaires and you really didn’t care for him.

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                          • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                            Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
                            Bernie wanted to tax billionaires and you really didn’t care for him.
                            Come on, seriously? Did I ever say that is why I didn't like Bernie?

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                            • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                              What do you propose, JD? I’m not even sure I know what a red state of blue state means most of the time on here. Federal? State? Executive? Legislative? 🤷🏻 I find some of the posting here hypocritical, as I think there are some red states doing it as well or better than blue states, but again, I’m not entirely sure what constitutes either.
                              So, what do you propose? I would assume it’s different than continuing to increase testing, increasing contact tracing capabilities, and strictly enforcing occupational capacity, social distancing, wearing of masks, etc

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                              • Re: Covfefe-19 The 10th Part: Might As Well Reject No Shirt, No Shoes While You're At

                                Originally posted by psych View Post
                                So, what do you propose? I would assume it’s different than continuing to increase testing, increasing contact tracing capabilities, and strictly enforcing occupational capacity, social distancing, wearing of masks, etc
                                Huh? This is exactly what I am on board with. Just not an indefinite full lockdown.

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