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Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

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  • #91
    Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

    Originally posted by pdt1081 View Post
    Netflix, Amazon, Disney+, etc. Plus, there are a few medical/pharma companies that are itching to get in on some funds as well.
    And they're social influencing the narrative in their economic favor?

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    • #92
      Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

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      • #93
        Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

        Americans are supposed to be upset about the clip I just watched?

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        • #94
          Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

          Originally posted by J.D. View Post
          Americans are supposed to be upset about the clip I just watched?
          Informed, not upset.

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          • #95
            Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

            I have not read through this whole thread, so am not replying to anyone's position in particular. But on CNN yesterday morning they interviewed a couple people from the medical field who were offering interesting information to suggest we should be more selective with social distancing. One, a doctor, I think, but maybe in epidemiology, wrote an article (New York Times?) that stated that a number of people are being kept from getting vital care for other conditions by staying away from hospitals and clinics due to distancing, and that the gap in preventative care could have a larger impact on the number of mortalities from other causes than from Covid, and suggested that stay-at-home rules should only apply to the vulnerable part of the population. That places like senior care facilities continue strict control but that schools and places of work return to some sort of normal. They also interviewed a researcher in epidemiology (I believe) who was introduced as one of the top 100 cited academics in the world. He mentioned that studies from multiple random anti-body tests are showing that there has been a much higher infection rate than was indicated by testing of only those showing symptoms. (Which of course means mortality rate is lower than we thought.) Like a typical researcher, he didn't specifically offer a recommendation on what policy should be, but he pretty much suggested that working towards herd immunity through selective protection of the vulnerable made sense. He essentially state that young people have tended to show no symptoms to those of a minor cold, and middle-aged (seemed to be up to 60-65, but not clear) tended to suffer the equivalent of a bad case of flu. And it was those who are older, and of course have other health issues, who are having the real problem and need to be isolated. But he thought that allowing less vulnerable middle-age and young to return to more normal activities made sense. Interview wasn't long, so they didn't get into whether this meant continuing with social distancing of six feet for all, masks, or what else, which of course would still be a problem for those attending athletics. But it sheds more light on the Sweden experiment. (Sorry, but am too lazy to look for either a video of the interview or the article.)

            And as for the Sweden experiment, (which I haven't followed closely) the success shouldn't really be judged on how many or few cases they have relative to other neighbors now. It is on whether they exceed the number they can take care of at one time and at the end of all this, how they compare. If Sweden ends up with an equivalent number of deaths, but can return to a normal economy in 6 months because they have achieved herd immunity, but neighbors continue to have flare ups for 2 years before they achieve the same level and their economy is stagnant for that time, which is better? Some of this really depends on if there is a vaccine developed and reproduced in a reasonable amount of time. So we can argue about the approach Sweden took versus others, but we won't really know until this has passed. And maybe we'll have learned for the next time around.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
              Informed, not upset.
              Informed by whoever made the video wants you to think. Keep politics off hockey forums please

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              • #97
                Originally posted by sk8shtscor View Post
                Informed by whoever made the video wants you to think. Keep politics off hockey forums please
                I replied to what was offered.

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                • #98
                  Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                  Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                  Disney is losing way more money off the theme parks being shutdown than gaining some extra Disney+ subscriptions.

                  And pretty soon there are not going to be anymore new movies and TV shows because all the studios are shutdown.
                  ESPN has to be hemorrhaging money as they have minimal content.
                  Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Koho View Post
                    I have not read through this whole thread, so am not replying to anyone's position in particular. But on CNN yesterday morning
                    ...
                    He mentioned that studies from multiple random anti-body tests are showing that there has been a much higher infection rate than was indicated by testing of only those showing symptoms. (Which of course means mortality rate is lower than we thought.)
                    ...
                    True, but correlation is not causation. Yes, there are more people infected who were unable to get tested who spread the virus around. It was pretty much assumed (despite the governor of Georgia just finding out in April).

                    But, there is also an interesting un-labled death spike when you compare deaths this year to the last five years (NY Times article here, this data was also backed up by two other sources, but I'm too lazy to link to them on my phone).

                    So yes, the *are* more people infected by Coronavirus than the official count reports. But the official death count also is low.


                    Also, the antibody tests, yes, are showing that more people did have the virus than initially thought. But these antibody tests are all not the same; more have been exposed recently for giving false positives, or worse false negatives. Lots of (legit news articles) on the testing errors.
                    “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

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                    • Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                      Originally posted by aparch View Post
                      True, but correlation is not causation. Yes, there are more people infected who were unable to get tested who spread the virus around. It was pretty much assumed (despite the governor of Georgia just finding out in April).

                      But, there is also an interesting un-labled death spike when you compare deaths this year to the last five years (NY Times article here, this data was also backed up by two other sources, but I'm too lazy to link to them on my phone).

                      So yes, the *are* more people infected by Coronavirus than the official count reports. But the official death count also is low.


                      Also, the antibody tests, yes, are showing that more people did have the virus than initially thought. But these antibody tests are all not the same; more have been exposed recently for giving false positives, or worse false negatives. Lots of (legit news articles) on the testing errors.
                      First, I am not sure what correlation or causation you are referring to. These studies refer to attempts to more accurately measure values, improve sampling method, not to assign a cause based on correlative evidence.

                      And yes, as the linked article points out, there is probably an underestimate of reported deaths. (It also shows sometimes it is difficult to assign cause, for example, is a hospitalized 40 year old person with stage 4 lung cancer who contracts COVID and dies a victim of the COVID, because it caused the person to die a few weeks earlier, or the lung cancer, which meant they couldn't fight it off as they likely would have without the cancer?) It also points out one of the points that the interviewed doctor made, that some of the spikes in deaths are attributable to other causes that went untreated because of stay-at-home orders. (And if I remember correctly, suggested that this effect will likely increase as time passes.) And the overall message was that the increased infection rate likely far exceeded what was originally thought, and far exceeded a potential higher, un-/mis-reported death rate. So even if mortalities are higher than currently reported, the much higher infection rate still results in a lower mortality rate than was thought.

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                      • Originally posted by UVM Cat in Texas View Post
                        Why would you need students on campus for there to be athletics in the fall? Why can't you just have athletes on campus? Athletes can probably be housed in just one or maybe two dorms. You have one cafeteria operating for the athletes. You test them for Coronavirus every day. They take their classes online just like all the students who being educated remotely. On game day, they play in empty stadiums, or in front of socially-distanced crowds, which may mean the stadium is only 1/3 to 1/2 full. The programs take a bit of a hit in ticket sales, but they still have plenty of money coming in from TV. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
                        College football is now discussing this option, the idea of football players being on campus but not the general student population.

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                        • Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                          Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                          College football is now discussing this option, the idea of football players being on campus but not the general student population.
                          I thought they had been doing that for decades?
                          The Souza record:
                          15-16 10th place
                          16-17 10th place
                          17-18 11th place
                          18-19 8th place
                          19-20 9th place
                          20-21 10th place
                          21-22 9th place
                          22-23 10th place

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                          • Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                            Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                            College football is now discussing this option, the idea of football players being on campus but not the general student population.
                            Questionable optics and high potential for a media-driven political firestorm. Somebody would have to explain why administrators think it's OK for some students to be on-campus sharing close quarters locker rooms and sweaty training facilities while the same administrators think it's not OK for other students to be on-campus sharing classrooms, labs, libraries, dorms, etc.
                            "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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                            • Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                              Even if football plays in front of empty stadiums, don't expect hockey in that situation.

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                              • Re: Will there be hockey in the fall? Will we have to wait until after Jan 1

                                Originally posted by Bonin21 View Post
                                Even if football plays in front of empty stadiums...
                                From my window into college football (ESPN Goal Line), a lot of college football teams were playing in front of nearly empty stadiums long before COVID-19 was a thing.
                                "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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