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Thread: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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    Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    While I agree with Handy that this situation is extreme what's not being acknowledged here is that the way the United States is set up there are no shock absorbers built into the system to cushion the blow. We as a society decided that we wanted a profit driven system with just in time manufacture and delivery. Look at how under Trump the stockpiles we do have went unmaintained. Masks that were rotted ship to New York. Machines that didn't work shipped to California. No startup of masks and ventilators in January. We cut the pandemic response team and pulled them out of numerous countries before this occurred. The "extra" trillion dollars the Republicans thought we had went to the 1% just a couple of years ago. We have antiquated Employment insurance, sick leave, vacation time, and pay scales for all our workers.

    I could go on and on.
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    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    While I agree with Handy that this situation is extreme what's not being acknowledged here is that the way the United States is set up there are no shock absorbers built into the system to cushion the blow. We as a society decided that we wanted a profit driven system with just in time manufacture and delivery. Look at how under Trump the stockpiles we do have went unmaintained. Masks that were rotted ship to New York. Machines that didn't work shipped to California. No startup of masks and ventilators in January. We cut the pandemic response team and pulled them out of numerous countries before this occurred. The "extra" trillion dollars the Republicans thought we had went to the 1% just a couple of years ago. We have antiquated Employment insurance, sick leave, vacation time, and pay scales for all our workers.

    I could go on and on.
    Dude, you can't design shock absorbers to protect against this. That would be like trying to design shock absorbers to stop a Delta IV heavy. These kinds of protections don't exist and have never existed and probably won't ever exist. Maybe, but probably not.

    And I see Hovey is still on his, "Well, we probably should have just killed 2-5% of the population because muh money!" Which is particularly stupid because it still would have stopped the economy.
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Dude, you can't design shock absorbers to protect against this. That would be like trying to design shock absorbers to stop a Delta IV heavy. These kinds of protections don't exist and have never existed and probably won't ever exist. Maybe, but probably not.

    And I see Hovey is still on his, "Well, we probably should have just killed 2-5% of the population because muh money!"
    I just disagree. We've blown 23 trillion dollars the last 40 years on ****. And now we're swimming in **** and don't have the resources to deal with it.
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    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(




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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post


    That is EXACTLY what we will end up doing. EXACTLY.
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    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Dude, you can't design shock absorbers to protect against this. That would be like trying to design shock absorbers to stop a Delta IV heavy. These kinds of protections don't exist and have never existed and probably won't ever exist. Maybe, but probably not.
    Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    From Elizabeth Warren's Facebook.

    Small business owners are pleading for help—but the Payment Protection Program created to help America’s small businesses stay afloat and keep their workers on payroll has been nothing but a fiasco since its launch.

    The confusing process of applying for PPP puts an extra, unnecessary burden on small business owners. Even if they’re able to apply, some big banks have shut out small businesses from being able to receive these loans altogether.

    Congress needs to act swiftly to fix the problems with this program and eliminate the cap on the total amount of money to keep workers employed. The government should guarantee that every small business that qualifies will get the help they desperately need—full stop.
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Why do I get the feeling that all of this involvement and bailout taking place this summer is going to be the equivalent of dining and dashing on Trump's part? We all know how good he is at making contractors eat their costs for his personal gain.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).
    Yeah, you have to prevent the need for shock absorbers in the first place. Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected. Decouple job from insurance by creating a national health service. Force corporations to cap dividends, buybacks, etc. as a certain multiple of employee retirement benefits and salary.
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).
    It works fine if you give small businesses and gig economy businesses access to the same things that large companies have. That takes a government program. One that we don't have.
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    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Yeah, you have to prevent the need for shock absorbers in the first place. Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected. Decouple job from insurance by creating a national health service. Force corporations to cap dividends, buybacks, etc. as a certain multiple of employee retirement benefits and salary.
    Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected.
    If they are independent contractors, who exactly are their employers?

    Businesses who have felt the crunch first are small businesses, typically owned by a single person. They're called sole proprietorships, usually, although some have incorporated or formed limited liability companies to try to give them some legal protection from creditors.

    There are something like 25 million of them, and they are far and away the most popular form of business. They include some guy cutting grass for a living. They also included, at one time, Apple, Amazon and a multitude of other enormous companies.

    So, you're just going to wave that magic hand of yours and deem those forms of businesses banned?
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    I think he's referring to the "side-hustle" companies like Uber/Lyft/DoorDash/Instacart. They can "pay" people without offering benefits typically offered to employees.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    I think he's referring to the "side-hustle" companies like Uber/Lyft/DoorDash/Instacart. They can "pay" people without offering benefits typically offered to employees.
    If he is, that's a tiny, tiny fraction of the people now out of work in this country.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey
    I believe that when people look back and study how we responded to this pandemic, they will conclude the US did the wrong thing. Yes, they will conclude that the federal government screwed up in terms of the speed at which it responded (assuming we can claim they've even responded at all).

    But the idea of just saying "today we're going to close 40% of our economy" and then deal with it tomorrow is ultimately going to be proven to be a very, very bad idea.
    When people look back at the last 40 years they will conclude we did the wrong thing, prioritizing the bank accounts of a few over the well being of the general population. They will look at you as a psychopath who valued further enriching the wealthiest among us over saving the lives of the poorest.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    I think he's referring to the "side-hustle" companies like Uber/Lyft/DoorDash/Instacart. They can "pay" people without offering benefits typically offered to employees.
    More than that too. Nurses (LPN's), tech people, etc - lots of people working on a contract basis out there. We're about to realize the scope of that the hard way unfortunately.
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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    What the hell good does a payroll tax cut do for people who aren't working?

    Just cut everyone a check. Or multiple checks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Just cut everyone a check. Or multiple checks.
    That's socialism, and we can't be having any of that rainbows and unicorns socialism on the GOP's watch.

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    Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    What the hell good does a payroll tax cut do for people who aren't working?

    Just cut everyone a check. Or multiple checks.
    We don't have the systems in place for that. Which is what I was arguing earlier and got shot down.
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    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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