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  • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

    Originally posted by LSSULaker889294 View Post
    The schedule will remain the same for now as UAH has been saved through fundraising efforts.
    Personally, I'd still like to see them become a part of the CCHA as long as they can come up with some type of long term funding commitment/stability.

    Comment


    • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

      The Lakers might of had to travel to UAA if UAH folded so Damon is probably thankful for that.

      I wonder if the Lakers will have more non-conference games besides the two Union games and the single Notre Dame one?
      LSSU hockey-3 time NCAA champs 1988, 1992, 1994

      Comment


      • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

        Originally posted by LSSULaker889294 View Post
        I wonder if the Lakers will have more non-conference games besides the two Union games and the single Notre Dame one?
        If things are back close to normal, I'd expect at least one more non-conference series.

        Comment


        • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

          Originally posted by LSSULaker889294 View Post
          The Lakers might of had to travel to UAA if UAH folded so Damon is probably thankful for that.

          I wonder if the Lakers will have more non-conference games besides the two Union games and the single Notre Dame one?
          They will have at least 3 more non-conference games. We just don't know the opponents yet.

          Comment


          • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

            I don't get why people can go to church in Michigan but there can't be any sports.

            Comment


            • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

              Originally posted by Laker Dude View Post
              I don't get why people can go to church in Michigan but there can't be any sports.
              Pretty much all the churches around the part of the state where I live are still not open; they're only streaming scaled back church services over the Internet. The governor opened up the northern part of lower Michigan and the UP a little over a week a ago (and right away went to her cabin up there for the Labor Day weekend with her husband), so maybe churches have opened up north. I'm not sure.

              More people have died from pneumonia than Covid since the CDC started keeping track of Covid deaths in February, and weekly CDC Covid death counts have decreased quite a bit since peaking in mid-April, so it seems like everything, including sports, should be opened back up, even if with some precautions. But the governor is on a power trip.

              Comment


              • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                No vaccine , no sports . Hell of a governor who can go up to a cabin for Labor Day three months before Labor Day even gets here .

                Comment


                • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                  I thought I read that Witmer was in Midland surveying the flood damage on Memorial Day weekend and not up north. Who is lying here? The news media or face book that posted she was up north . Or maybe she went Labor Day weekend .

                  Comment


                  • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                    Originally posted by Bill View Post
                    Pretty much all the churches around the part of the state where I live are still not open; they're only streaming scaled back church services over the Internet. The governor opened up the northern part of lower Michigan and the UP a little over a week a ago (and right away went to her cabin up there for the Labor Day weekend with her husband), so maybe churches have opened up north. I'm not sure.

                    More people have died from pneumonia than Covid since the CDC started keeping track of Covid deaths in February, and weekly CDC Covid death counts have decreased quite a bit since peaking in mid-April, so it seems like everything, including sports, should be opened back up, even if with some precautions. But the governor is on a power trip.
                    Bill, first, I've always felt your posts that are hockey specific have always been very insightful and, I can tell you have very good knowledge of the game and LSSU hockey. Let me also say that I rarely post in team specific threads. However, I've kind of made it might quest to push back on inaccurate info as it relates to Covid 19. So, when you posted what you did above regarding the flu and Covid, I felt compelled to reply. What follows are two articles that address the comparison of deaths from influenza vs deaths from Covid since February.

                    The link to the first from the "Scientific American" is here:

                    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/

                    It's written by Dr. Jeremy Faust, who spent four years in an emergency medicine residency and has since spent three and a half years as an attending physician. You can read the article in it's entirety but, I want to point you to a couple of keys parts. From the article;

                    "In early April, as social distancing measures began to succeed in flattening the curve in some parts of the country, an influential forecasting model revised the number of American deaths from coronavirus that it was projecting by summer downward to 60,400, and some people again began making comparisons to the flu, arguing that, if this will ultimately be no worse than a bad flu season, we should open the country up for business again. (On April 22, the model’s forecast rose to 67,641 deaths.) But these arguments, like the president’s comments, are based on a flawed understanding of how flu deaths are counted, which may leave us with a distorted view of how coronavirus compares with it."

                    "When reports about the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 began circulating earlier this year and questions were being raised about how the illness it causes, COVID-19, compared to the flu, it occurred to me that, in four years of emergency medicine residency and over three and a half years as an attending physician, I had almost never seen anyone die of the flu. I could only remember one tragic pediatric case.Based on the CDC numbers though, I should have seen many, many more. In 2018, over 46,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses. Over 36,500 died in traffic accidents. Nearly 40,000 died from gun violence. I see those deaths all the time. Was I alone in noticing this discrepancy?"

                    "I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience. The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts."

                    "To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse."

                    Next, here is a link to the website "Statista";

                    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ia-and-flu-us/

                    From there comes the following; from Feb. 1st thru May 30th, there have been 84,735 deaths from just Covid, 37,020 deaths from Covid and pneumonia combined (or, a total of 121,755 with some type of Covid involvement) AND, just 6,320 deaths from influenza during this time frame. I'm sorry Bill, I'm not sure where you're getting your info regarding these comparisons but, it's quite evident it isn't very accurate. I get that you disagree with your governor's stance on the lock downs. Unfortunately, since our federal government dropped the ball so badly in its initial reaction to the virus -- remember that us and S. Korea had our first confirmed cases on the same day and S. Korea is currently at 273 deaths vs our 106,181 according to the John's Hopkins site -- there isn't a single scientific/medical expert in the area of this type of virus that didn't agree with the severity and length of the stay-at-home orders in order to flatten the curve and limit spread in order to allow our health care system to build up on PPE, ICU beds, and ventilators. In fact, there isn't a scientist/medical expert that felt we should open things up as quick as we have.

                    Don't get me wrong, I understand as much as anyone what it has and is doing to our economy -- I've been laid off from my job -- so, I'm not against trying to get things moving a little, even if that means increasing the risk of spread a bit. Of course, the devil of that is in the details and the nuance of how you "open". Unfortunately, IF the NCAA/leagues/teams are really going to follow the CDC/state health dpartment guidelines about quarantining people who test positive for 14 days AND, anyone who was deemed to have had close contact with that person, the moment any player tests positive, the entire team, to include the coaching staff, trainers, equipment people, and possibly even the media who travel and are around the team on a regular basis, SHOULD all be in quarantine for 14 days. And, if the player tests positive within 5 days of having played a game, if you're truly following those guidelines, anyone who played in that game for that opposing team should have to quarantine for 14 days as well. Talk about creating havoc with a schedule...

                    Not to mention the overall viral load of droplets that would be hanging in the air from the middle of the 2nd period thru til the end of any game if there happen to be even just 3-5 asymptomatic players playing between both teams. Here's an article from Science Magazine published May 27th regarding the latest info on how the virus is being transmitted, including the fact they now believe it is being aerosolized and that, in an indoor area it might actually hang in the air for hours vs the previously believed 6-8 minutes. The point is, unless/until we have a mass produced/widely available vaccine or a therapeutic that literally keeps 99.999% of anyone who gets it out of the ICU or put on a vent, I find it very difficult to believe we'll be playing games. Stay safe and I look forward to reading your future posts on LSSU hockey!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bill View Post

                      More people have died from pneumonia than Covid since the CDC started keeping track of Covid deaths in February,
                      When you show me a contagious form of pneumonia, this becomes a valid comparison. Otherwise it's a Chewbacca defense.

                      Comment


                      • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                        Damon Whitten thinks there will be a season according to the most recent Laker Hockey Talk Show with Bill Crawford.

                        Speaking of Bill Crawford, if there's a season, I'm assuming he won't travel on long trips again. Probably the only road games he'll do will be at NMU, Tech and Ferris.

                        Sports are coming back. NASCAR is already back, NHL should be back in July and the NBA should announce plans to return soon.
                        Last edited by LSSULaker889294; 06-03-2020, 05:34 AM.
                        LSSU hockey-3 time NCAA champs 1988, 1992, 1994

                        Comment


                        • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                          Originally posted by net presence View Post
                          Bill, first, I've always felt your posts that are hockey specific have always been very insightful and, I can tell you have very good knowledge of the game and LSSU hockey. Let me also say that I rarely post in team specific threads. However, I've kind of made it might quest to push back on inaccurate info as it relates to Covid 19. So, when you posted what you did above regarding the flu and Covid, I felt compelled to reply. What follows are two articles that address the comparison of deaths from influenza vs deaths from Covid since February.

                          The link to the first from the "Scientific American" is here:

                          https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/

                          It's written by Dr. Jeremy Faust, who spent four years in an emergency medicine residency and has since spent three and a half years as an attending physician. You can read the article in it's entirety but, I want to point you to a couple of keys parts. From the article;

                          "In early April, as social distancing measures began to succeed in flattening the curve in some parts of the country, an influential forecasting model revised the number of American deaths from coronavirus that it was projecting by summer downward to 60,400, and some people again began making comparisons to the flu, arguing that, if this will ultimately be no worse than a bad flu season, we should open the country up for business again. (On April 22, the model’s forecast rose to 67,641 deaths.) But these arguments, like the president’s comments, are based on a flawed understanding of how flu deaths are counted, which may leave us with a distorted view of how coronavirus compares with it."

                          "When reports about the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 began circulating earlier this year and questions were being raised about how the illness it causes, COVID-19, compared to the flu, it occurred to me that, in four years of emergency medicine residency and over three and a half years as an attending physician, I had almost never seen anyone die of the flu. I could only remember one tragic pediatric case.Based on the CDC numbers though, I should have seen many, many more. In 2018, over 46,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses. Over 36,500 died in traffic accidents. Nearly 40,000 died from gun violence. I see those deaths all the time. Was I alone in noticing this discrepancy?"

                          "I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience. The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts."

                          "To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse."

                          Next, here is a link to the website "Statista";

                          https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ia-and-flu-us/

                          From there comes the following; from Feb. 1st thru May 30th, there have been 84,735 deaths from just Covid, 37,020 deaths from Covid and pneumonia combined (or, a total of 121,755 with some type of Covid involvement) AND, just 6,320 deaths from influenza during this time frame. I'm sorry Bill, I'm not sure where you're getting your info regarding these comparisons but, it's quite evident it isn't very accurate. I get that you disagree with your governor's stance on the lock downs. Unfortunately, since our federal government dropped the ball so badly in its initial reaction to the virus -- remember that us and S. Korea had our first confirmed cases on the same day and S. Korea is currently at 273 deaths vs our 106,181 according to the John's Hopkins site -- there isn't a single scientific/medical expert in the area of this type of virus that didn't agree with the severity and length of the stay-at-home orders in order to flatten the curve and limit spread in order to allow our health care system to build up on PPE, ICU beds, and ventilators. In fact, there isn't a scientist/medical expert that felt we should open things up as quick as we have.

                          Don't get me wrong, I understand as much as anyone what it has and is doing to our economy -- I've been laid off from my job -- so, I'm not against trying to get things moving a little, even if that means increasing the risk of spread a bit. Of course, the devil of that is in the details and the nuance of how you "open". Unfortunately, IF the NCAA/leagues/teams are really going to follow the CDC/state health dpartment guidelines about quarantining people who test positive for 14 days AND, anyone who was deemed to have had close contact with that person, the moment any player tests positive, the entire team, to include the coaching staff, trainers, equipment people, and possibly even the media who travel and are around the team on a regular basis, SHOULD all be in quarantine for 14 days. And, if the player tests positive within 5 days of having played a game, if you're truly following those guidelines, anyone who played in that game for that opposing team should have to quarantine for 14 days as well. Talk about creating havoc with a schedule...

                          Not to mention the overall viral load of droplets that would be hanging in the air from the middle of the 2nd period thru til the end of any game if there happen to be even just 3-5 asymptomatic players playing between both teams. Here's an article from Science Magazine published May 27th regarding the latest info on how the virus is being transmitted, including the fact they now believe it is being aerosolized and that, in an indoor area it might actually hang in the air for hours vs the previously believed 6-8 minutes. The point is, unless/until we have a mass produced/widely available vaccine or a therapeutic that literally keeps 99.999% of anyone who gets it out of the ICU or put on a vent, I find it very difficult to believe we'll be playing games. Stay safe and I look forward to reading your future posts on LSSU hockey!
                          I didn't make any comparison between the "flu" and Covid. I merely pointed out that the CDC reports more people are dying from "pneumonia" than from Covid, and the number dying from Covid has significantly declined since mid-April. The CDC does report far more Covid deaths than flu deaths.

                          As far as the Dr Faust article about Covid versus the flu goes, it begs the question, if hardly anyone is dying from the flu as he thinks, why would doctors let the CDC get away with projecting the relatively large number of annual flu deaths?

                          Sorry to hear that you have been laid off. I hope you are back to work soon, either where you were laid off, or maybe even someplace better.

                          The latest CDC report shows a total of 104 Covid deaths in the elementary school/junior high/high school/college age groups since February. I don't think young people should be fearful of going back to school or participating in sports.
                          Last edited by Bill; 06-03-2020, 09:55 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                            Originally posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
                            When you show me a contagious form of pneumonia, this becomes a valid comparison. Otherwise it's a Chewbacca defense.
                            OK, but it doesn't change the fact that the CDC is reporting more deaths from pneumonia than from Covid. The CDC is making the comparison in its charts.

                            Comment


                            • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                              If we have a hockey season this Fall, this is my best guess for the roster at this point:

                              Goalies

                              Mitens, Eisele, Langenegger

                              Defense

                              Riedell, Kaeble, Mannara, Henrikson, Oliver, Nordqvist, Gervais, Bengtsson, Borshyov

                              Forwards

                              Manz, Ambrosio, Miura, Calder, Gamelin, Mucha, Eriksson, Veillette, Esposito-Selivanov, Boudon, Posa, Wildauer, DenBeste, Williams, Jenuwine, Puricelli

                              Jenuwine and Puricelli are transfers so may not play until the second semester. The NCAA was considering a one time rule where anyone could transfer and play immediately without having to sit out, but I think I saw recently where that did not go through. On the LHT show, it sounded like Damon said the Lakers were still waiting to hear from the NCAA on when the two of them would be eligible to play; I think the Lakers may have appealed their cases.

                              Comment


                              • Re: LSSU Lakers 2020 off-season thread

                                Originally posted by Bill View Post
                                I didn't make any comparison between the "flu" and Covid. I merely pointed out that the CDC reports more people are dying from "pneumonia" than from Covid, and the number dying from Covid has significantly declined since mid-April. The CDC does report far more Covid deaths than flu deaths.

                                As far as the Dr Faust article about Covid versus the flu goes, it begs the question, if hardly anyone is dying from the flu as he thinks, why would doctors let the CDC get away with projecting the relatively large number of annual flu deaths?

                                Sorry to hear that you have been laid off. I hope you are back to work soon, either where you were laid off, or maybe even someplace better.

                                The latest CDC report shows a total of 104 Covid deaths in the elementary school/junior high/high school/college age groups since February. I don't think young people should be fearful of going back to school or participating in sports.

                                Bill, first, thanks so much for your kind words regarding my employment situation. Very much appreciated. As for your question about why physicians may not have previously pushed back on the CDC's flu deaths numbers, my guess is, prior to Covid where so many people tried to compare it to the flu, they never had a reason to really look closely at the numbers vs what they were seeing in their individual practices/experience.

                                Next, regarding the flu vs Covid comparison; my apologies as I apparently misread what you had said. Still, if you look at the total number of pneumonia deaths in the U.S. on the KFF website which specializes in various health statistics, you'll see that for 2018, the most recent year statistics are available, the total pneumonia deaths for that year were 47,956. Now, that's half as many deaths as is listed on the Statista website for just the time frame from Feb. 1 thru May 30. So, I'll need to do some more research on why there's such a difference between years/sites. The other challenge of your pneumonia vs Covid comparison is that pneumonia is a pretty common thing in older people and is caused by numerous other conditions. And, even the CDC says that people who are properly vaccinated for the flu and other diseases will decrease their chances for getting pneumonia. My point is, it's very much an apples to oranges comparison. We are already at 106,533 Covid deaths and, that's in just in a little over 90 days... I'm sorry but, there's a very good chance we will easily be over 200,000 at the 12 month mark for Covid. Thus, I don't think your comparison to pneumonia holds up very well either.

                                And, I agree with the fact that younger, healthy kids/adults are at a very low risk of suffering from significant symptoms if they contract Covid. Unfortunately, since 35-40% of all infected are asymptomatic, administrators biggest concern is having an athlete or coach infect others who may be immuno compromised. Also, I noticed no one has addressed or pushed back about my point regarding required quarantining of infected players and other deemed to have had close contact and that potential affect on a teams or teams' schedules. Power 5 football and basketball may have the money to consistently test players and staff but I'm pretty sure small Div. I hockey schools won't. When it comes to player health and safety, administrators are going to err on the conservative side of that ledger. Unfortunately, it's all about preventing preventable lawsuits.

                                Comment

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