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The new WCHA is dead pt2

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  • #16
    Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

    Without knowing who you play instead of the removed teams & how well you do against said teams, isn't it nearly impossible to know for sure how PWR changes?

    And, if the rules reverted to that language, I was not aware. I haven't been as closely associated with the sport in the last seven years, but I do know it was a reason MSU-Moorhead gave up (in addition to funding) looking into hockey
    Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

    AHA:
    B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
    CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
    ECAC:
    HEA: UMass
    NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
    Independant: ASU


    Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

      Originally posted by moose97 View Post
      Without knowing who you play instead of the removed teams & how well you do against said teams, isn't it nearly impossible to know for sure how PWR changes?

      And, if the rules reverted to that language, I was not aware. I haven't been as closely associated with the sport in the last seven years, but I do know it was a reason MSU-Moorhead gave up (in addition to funding) looking into hockey
      No, the rule is there...

      20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year. (Revised: 8/9/07, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

      It's just that there's a way around it if there's no championship for a particular sport in Division II. Dallas Baptist, which is Division II, couldn't play baseball in Division I as it does now if they hadn't declared to play up in 2004.
      Michael Napier - UAH '97
      uahhockey.com

      UAH Chargers Hockey
      U.S. National Club Champions - 1982, 1983, 1984
      NCAA Division II National Champions - 1996, 1998
      CHA Regular Season Champions - 2001, 2003
      CHA Tournament Champions - 2007, 2010

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

        Originally posted by moose97
        Yes, because decisions are made based on what fans want. If its financially beneficial enough for them to resod the field 6 times a year and host UST football, the fans will just have to get over it.
        Vocal soccer fanbases are way more peculiar about the pitch than any other fan especially with a new franchise developing a fanbase. MNUFC currently have a 10k seat waiting list and I don't believe the team wants to lose them becuase of adding a rentor. Now I am not saying this couldn't happen but the timing my not be right as of today.
        Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
        dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
        wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

          Originally posted by UAHStatman View Post
          No, the rule is there...

          20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year. (Revised: 8/9/07, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

          It's just that there's a way around it if there's no championship for a particular sport in Division II. Dallas Baptist, which is Division II, couldn't play baseball in Division I as it does now if they hadn't declared to play up in 2004.
          yup, the rule exists but hockey is exempt because NCAA doesn't sponsor a championship.
          Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

          Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

            Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
            Vocal soccer fanbases are way more peculiar about the pitch than any other fan especially with a new franchise developing a fanbase. MNUFC currently have a 10k seat waiting list and I don't believe the team wants to lose them becuase of adding a rentor. Now I am not saying this couldn't happen but the timing my not be right as of today.
            The stigma of American Football lines on a stadium built for Soccer is a thing. I don't really see MLS or MNUFC wanting Allianz Field to have St Thomas as a tenant. I could be wrong but I doubt it...
            I guess its possible they could be a a temporary venue while St Thomas upgrades to meet some requirements or something but that makes fall rather congested and I hated how few games we had at home in the fall when we were at TCF Bank...
            Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

            Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
              Can someone show me evidence of a rule change that DII schools cannot play up in DI hockey specifically? This is news to me if they can't because NCAA doesn't sponsor a DII championship. In other sports, I believe it, you can't just choose to play up, but hockey is an exception because there is no DII championship.

              "Some schools, however, have opted to compete in a sport at a higher level and are allowed to do so by the NCAA under certain circumstances. First, schools in Divisions II and III are allowed to classify one men's sport and one women's sport as Division I (except for football and basketball), provided that they were sponsoring said sports at Division I level prior to 2011. In addition to this, a lower-division school may compete as a Division I member in a given sport if the NCAA does not sponsor a championship in that sport for the school's own division. Division II schools may award scholarships and operate under Division I rules in their Division I sports. Division III schools cannot award scholarships in their Division I sports (except as noted below), but can operate under most Division I rules in those sports."
              You're highlighting the wrong statement.

              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
              20.8.2 Division II Options When No Division II Championship is Conducted. An active member institution that holds membership in Division II is eligible to compete in the Division I championship in those sports for which no championship is conducted in Division II. The Division II institution shall declare its intention to compete by June 1. This declaration of intent shall be effective for a minimum of three years. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 9/1/92)

              20.8.2.1 Participation in Division I Championship. To be eligible for the Division I championship in such a sport, the Division II member institution is required to meet all Division I institutional and individual eligibility requirements and may use Division I financial aid limitations in that sport as permitted under Bylaw 20.9.1.1.
              (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 9/1/92)

              20.8.2.2 Exception for Maximum Number of Contests or Dates of Competition. A Division II member institution that is eligible for a championship in another division because there is no championship in that sport in its membership division shall apply the maximum number of contests or dates of competition in the sport involved that applies to the division in which it declares its intention to compete.

              I spoke to someone that confirmed these are still intact and that the only difference is that a school like St. Thomas would not be able to call themselves a DI institution if they're not full DI, but they would be allowed to participate in DI hockey and follow DI hockey rules while being DI in everything else.
              Originally posted by UAHStatman View Post
              No, the rule is there...

              20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year. (Revised: 8/9/07, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

              It's just that there's a way around it if there's no championship for a particular sport in Division II. Dallas Baptist, which is Division II, couldn't play baseball in Division I as it does now if they hadn't declared to play up in 2004.
              Just because you want to believe that DII teams can play up, doesn't mean they can.
              bigmrg74: "You can't drink the day away if you don't start early!"
              SledDog: "UncleRay seems to be the most sensible one here tonight."
              All great men are dead and I'm not feeling well.
              A Margarita! in every hand and another Margarita! in the other hand!

              And stay off the lawn!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                Vocal soccer fanbases are way more peculiar about the pitch than any other fan especially with a new franchise developing a fanbase. MNUFC currently have a 10k seat waiting list and I don't believe the team wants to lose them becuase of adding a rentor. Now I am not saying this couldn't happen but the timing my not be right as of today.
                Not to mention the possibility of field issues and injury risks at the time of year when the team will likely be making a playoff push.
                U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                I spell Failure with UAF

                Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                  Originally posted by UncleRay View Post
                  Just because you want to believe that DII teams can play up, doesn't mean they can.

                  They can. The "provided that they were sponsoring said sports at Division 1 level prior to 2011" is for schools choosing to play up in a sport that has a championship at their division level, such as RIT/SLU/etc playing D1 hockey. The key in that rule is "IN ADDITION TO THIS", saying that schools playing a sport in a division for which there is no championship, can play up.

                  The Saint Anselm MH team has been looking into, and pondering this for years, though now it's looking like they will try to push their entire AD down to D3 eventually.

                  r

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                  • #24
                    Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                    The Loons likely wouldn't allow it but their fans would be 0% of the reason.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                      Originally posted by UncleRay View Post
                      You're highlighting the wrong statement.



                      Just because you want to believe that DII teams can play up, doesn't mean they can.
                      Rule 20.4.1 means that a school like Minnesota State-Moorhead would not be able to call itself a D1 hockey team, but they would be allowed to play for the D1 championship, because the NCAA does not sponsor a D2 championship.

                      The only difference is that, in the past, a D-II school like UMD could declare itself D-I in hockey, etc... whereas now, they can't call themselves D-I - but can participate just the same. So it's just semantics.
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                        The Loons likely wouldn't allow it but their fans would be 0% of the reason.
                        You’d be surprised at what kind of impact fan groups have on MLS decisions. Try reading up on the Iron Front flag controversy and the now revised fan code of conduct.
                        U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                        Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                        I spell Failure with UAF

                        Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                        But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                        Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                        Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                          Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                          You’d be surprised at what kind of impact fan groups have on MLS decisions. Try reading up on the Iron Front flag controversy and the now revised fan code of conduct.
                          Yup. Even American soccer fans can really be "intense/obnoxious" about certain changes like the field, the size of it and gridiron lines which will make people angry. Some might even not come back.
                          Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                          dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                          wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                            Originally posted by Numbers View Post
                            Question: Have the 3 schools in question gone 2-15-1 every year?
                            Maybe three years is convenient, but since the nWCHA has only been in existence seven seasons (almost), we can probably look at the full history of non-conference games. These are from the the WCHA filtered stats.




                            UAH is the worst performing team. UAA is much better but still second to last. But if you want to get rid of your next two lowest performers, then the CCHA made a mistake in showing BSU and NMU the secrete handshake.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2

                              Originally posted by mmf View Post
                              Maybe three years is convenient, but since the nWCHA has only been in existence seven seasons (almost), we can probably look at the full history of non-conference games. These are from the the WCHA filtered stats.




                              UAH is the worst performing team. UAA is much better but still second to last. But if you want to get rid of your next two lowest performers, then the CCHA made a mistake in showing BSU and NMU the secrete handshake.
                              Salty much? Follow along. Its not about Pairwise. Its about reducing costs.
                              Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

                              AHA:
                              B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
                              CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
                              ECAC:
                              HEA: UMass
                              NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
                              Independant: ASU


                              Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                                Salty much? Follow along. Its not about Pairwise. Its about reducing costs.
                                You mean the costs the Alaska schools have paid for?
                                U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                                Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                                I spell Failure with UAF

                                Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                                But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                                Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                                Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                                Comment

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