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Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

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  • Originally posted by Rover View Post
    All of them except for Sanders and maybe Warren. Sounds like you're in Buttigieg's camp (Medicare for all who choose it).
    Thanks for an actual response. Yes, he would certainly get my vote over Bernie Sanders. And again, I can't imagine there are too many democratic politicians on board with Bernie's plan.

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    • Originally posted by Rover View Post
      Guys, this is not the way to consolidate support. Not everyone sees the glory of M4A right from the outset. I for one am perfectly willing to support Sanders once Warren drops out but questioning the viability of a M4A system doesn't make you a freakin' Republican.
      As an independent who would gladly vote for a Democrat in this election, thank you.

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      • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

        The doctor thinks I might have an ulcer and ordered an Endoscopy in January. The first available appointment was April 6. But please, tell me more scary stories about wait times and how efficient our current system is.

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        • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Kind of. In an intellectual debate you are correct because each party has the burden of informing themselves. But in a campaign it is the responsibility of the candidate to deliver this information again and again and again with a spoonful of sugar to every facet of the audience. Sanders needs to have peer reviewed position papers for the smarties, bumper stickers and ad jingles for the dummies, and bullet list talking points for the media. He has to do all the heavy lifting for a public that is lazy and stupid and whose vote is the only thing that matters.
          You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

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          • Originally posted by Rover View Post
            Guys, this is not the way to consolidate support. Not everyone sees the glory of M4A right from the outset. I for one am perfectly willing to support Sanders once Warren drops out but questioning the viability of a M4A system doesn't make you a freakin' Republican.
            The poster started on about how no one here will acknowledge flaws. That’s not correct.
            Perhaps the poster could try and learn more about universal care while they scream at others to see its flaws

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            • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

              Uh who did that?

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              • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
                The doctor thinks I might have an ulcer and ordered an Endoscopy in January. The first available appointment was April 6. But please, tell me more scary stories about wait times and how efficient our current system is.
                How would M4A change that though? You'd still be dealing with wait times as that's a problem with the availability of care, not in having insurance.
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                  Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                  Thanks for an actual response. Yes, he would certainly get my vote over Bernie Sanders. And again, I can't imagine there are too many democratic politicians on board with Bernie's plan.
                  It's thirds. There's a "radical Center" third who understand M4A is where we will eventually wind up but doesn't want to spook the horses. There's a Left third who believes this is a once per century chance to move America forward, like the New Deal, and we can't blow it. And then there's a third who really doesn't think about positions too deeply, loathes Dump, and will vote for the blue alternative. This is the third the media presents as exemplary of the party but it isn't any more than either of the other two thirds.
                  Cornell University
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                  • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                    Lol. As I stated, I work in the healthcare industry. I know plenty about universal care.

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                    • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                      Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                      Lol. As I stated, I work in the healthcare industry. I know plenty about universal care.
                      Are you in a role threatened by M4A? That could subconsciously color your thinking.

                      I would not expect people who work in medical insurance or insurance administration to have an unbiased view, for example. The guys who worked in the buggy whip industry were likely anti-automobile.
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                      • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                        Lol. Have you moved to other countries to work in those systems? I have.

                        Wait times aren’t solved by single payer. However, people get more basic care in those systems and if you’re treated for things before they become massive issues, you save money and time.

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                        • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Are you in a role threatened by M4A? That could subconsciously color your thinking.

                          I would not expect people who work in medical insurance or insurance administration to have an unbiased view, for example. The guys who worked in the buggy whip industry were likely anti-automobile.
                          Not helping....
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            It's thirds. There's a "radical Center" third who understand M4A is where we will eventually wind up but doesn't want to spook the horses. There's a Left third who believes this is a once per century chance to move America forward, like the New Deal, and we can't blow it. And then there's a third who really doesn't think about positions too deeply, loathes Dump, and will vote for the blue alternative. This is the third the media presents as exemplary of the party but it isn't any more than either of the other two thirds.
                            What makes you think universal care is where we will end up? Bernie wins, gets it implemented, the nation is united and falls in love with it, Republicans too or they never win another election. Seems like a stretch to conclude that.

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                            • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                              Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                              What makes you think universal care is where we will end up? Bernie wins, gets it implemented, the nation is united and falls in love with it, Republicans too or they never win another election. Seems like a stretch to conclude that.
                              Eventually as in 100 years. This is a basic government service, like maintaining an army or ensuring clean water and untainted meat. We will get there, the only question is how many generations we make suffer until we do. It's just like civil rights. Politics is how you manage the transition from legacy ideologies and institutions to more advanced, superior releases. There will always be stakeholders with a vested interest in maintaining obsolete systems despite a net loss in social good. The job of the Left is to manage rollouts against that resistance.

                              The Left is Change Management. The Right is Rentier Exploitation.
                              Last edited by Kepler; 02-25-2020, 09:35 AM.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

                                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                                Eventually as in 100 years. This is a basic government service, like maintaining an army or ensuring clean water and untainted meat. We will get there, the only question is how many generations we make suffer until we do. It's just like civil rights -- politics is how you manage the transition from legacy systems to more advanced, superior releases.
                                JD has a point though. With M4A, its important not to overpromise because the opposition party is 100% butthurt Nazis who will try to exploit any issue to attain power and then will reverse it the first chance they get.

                                The ACA is currently more popular than its ever been, maybe 55-37 in a recent poll. Think of the long, hard decade long struggle to get to that point. Part of the problem was a succinct but unattainable promise (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) that wasn't possible to deliver on.

                                M4A would not only need a successful implementation but it can't hand out promises such as tica's situation that its not meant to deliver on. Dems also need to be prepared to do a better job selling the benefits post implementation than they did after the ACA got up and running.
                                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                                Comment

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