Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

yes, we know he released this information. But when asked recently in an interview if his proposed taxes would raise enough money to cover these programs his answer was basically "I don't know". That answer is a problem, and that's why I said he needs to get his **** together. He should have been able to say something like "free college tuition will cost $X and our studies show that a wall street speculation tax would bring in a minimum of $XX".

No argument. That's what he should have said.

[ticapnews]

yes, we know he released this information.

Apparently not.

He definitely knows what the rough cost of his proposals is. He just doesn't want to say it in public during the campaign

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

All the single payer counties I know have had private plans pop up and fill a demand. That would certainly happen here.

The public health angle - what’s good for everyone- does need to be considered. If our taxes went to things like this instead of the billions to the military and corporate tax breaks, it’s amazing how much we’d save

[Slap Shot]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

That's not leading them as far as the water because as Bass pointed out Bernie himself said, "I don't know" if he'd have the funding for all his proposals.

In Bernie's defense (this will hurt a bit) effing Trump claimed Mexico would pay for the wall and none of the orcs blinked. Why is it so hard for Democrats to similarly pull the wool over their eyes if you will? I don't mean that Bernie is anywhere close to being as full of s**t, but rather why does Bernie need to have it 100% covered off to avoid inciting so much opposition from even Democrats? (Not looking for a psychological examination here the question is somewhat rhetorical).

Point being I will vote for Bernie if he gets the nod, but I don't think he can win.

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bloomberg has done heroic work on gun control, so give the man his due. If that's your main issue then there's no one with a stronger record. Its similar to Sanders with M4A. Until he started throwing his millions around the NRA had no organized opposition when they'd go after any legislator who opposed them on a gun bill. Even they can't compete with Bloomberg's money. Mind you that doesn't mean we owe him the nomination before someone freaks out.

She hates guns...but it ranks like 5th in order of what she cares about. I would guess she thinks he can beat Trump at his own game but I honestly avoid the subject.

BTW what did poke do?

[Chickens@NU]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Here's my issue with the current crop of Dem challengers.

Bernie - Toxic followers. They are the Dems version of Drumpf supporters, and will attack anyone and everyone that doesn't think like them. Not all of Bernie's supporters are toxic, but the Bernie Bros. stain his followers. I feel that if Bernie wins the nomination, he will win, but I also feel he will alienate the moderates and the Right and will keep the country divided. If he looses, the Bernie Bros will ensure that Drumpf will be the first president Impeached twice.

Joe Biden - Too moderate to connect with most dems. I don't think he can connect to most dems. His chance to run and have an impact would have been 4 years ago, not now. I think he's trying to run on Obama's coattails and can't connect with a lot of voters.

Elizabeth Warren - Too far left to connect with the moderates who are in between Drumpf and Dems. I don't think she will have a shot against Drumpf because of his vicious attacks and that she is a woman. I'm not saying a woman can't be president, I just don't think a woman can beat Drumpf because of the hatred and vileness that he brings.

Pete Booty Gig - I think he's my favorite ATM. But as a co-worker of mine points out, a gay white northern democratic male without a southern accent will have no shot with southern voters. The last white male to win the presidency was from Arkansas. I think that is pretty stereo typical but might be the truth for his candidacy. I don't know if if he can connect with the Bernie Bros like Warren or Bernie can.

Amy K. - Very similar to Booty Gig, but I think that the closeness to him works against her. They both are fighting for the midwest votes and I feel that her being female will work against her if she goes against Drumpf. Again, I don't think she can connect with the Bernie bros like Warren but she will have a shot at the female voters that Warren has if Warren falters.

Bloomberg$ - My issue with him was clearly stated during the debate - we can't go from one billionaire DB to another. Trying to buy the presidency. While I think he has the right ideas for someone with his wealth, I don't think he can compete with the con artist.

Tom Styer - Not well known enough and is trying to buy the presidency, (see Bloomberg). I believe that he doesn't have the status to make an impact to win the nomination, but is saying the right things, but not enough about the issues that everyone else is debating. I don't think he can make an impact to win the nomination or the presidency.

Gabbard - She's still in it? Once the other candidates joined the race, support for her plummeted and she doesn't make the impact that can win the nom or the presidency.

Like I said, I currently like Pete, but this race is turning as toxic as the Commander in Tweet, AKA Agent Orange. I long for the days when republicans could back their candidate based on morals, but this current Oompa Loompa has exposed many republicans as greedy frauds or too spineless to stand up for their morals. But what this Commander in Tweet has done to the country, has forced everyone to try and mimic him to beat him, and I feel they will fail if they play that game. I fear what will happen if the Tweeter gets four more years. The divide will grow and the unrest will grow, and the divide will continue.

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

JD has a point though. With M4A, its important not to overpromise because the opposition party is 100% butthurt Nazis who will try to exploit any issue to attain power and then will reverse it the first chance they get.

The ACA is currently more popular than its ever been, maybe 55-37 in a recent poll. Think of the long, hard decade long struggle to get to that point. Part of the problem was a succinct but unattainable promise (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) that wasn't possible to deliver on.

M4A would not only need a successful implementation but it can't hand out promises such as tica's situation that its not meant to deliver on. Dems also need to be prepared to do a better job selling the benefits post implementation than they did after the ACA got up and running.

All of this.

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

All changes will face sabotage by those with a vested interest in seeing them fail. And of course the particular political opposition we face is spectacular in its disregard for the truth and the public welfare. So sure, we have to be mindful of that.

But you don't just give your lunch money to the playground bully because you know otherwise he'll try to beat you up. You get ten friends to circle him and then say, "try it."

That is an awful analogy. If you want M4A to work you need to get the PEOPLE on board. Hell they hated ObamaCare until it was a Hillbilly's Heartbeat away from being taken away. There is a very large segment of the population who think plans like that are bound to fail (not to mention the ones who find them evil) and lets be honest, there is going to plenty of growing pains. It is important that the message be clear and concise and understandable. I am all for dreaming big but in practice you need to make sure you arent offering the moon because if you fall short it is a long way to fall.

We will never have a better chance than right now. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot with arrogance.

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

Ya know...you might do a better job "Saving the Republic" and getting us lazy plebes to help you if you didnt act like Hillary Clinton every time you talked. Christ you are even using her "Its all on the Web Site" schtick.

[bronconick]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

That is an awful analogy. If you want M4A to work you need to get the PEOPLE on board. Hell they hated ObamaCare until it was a Hillbilly's Heartbeat away from being taken away. There is a very large segment of the population who think plans like that are bound to fail (not to mention the ones who find them evil) and lets be honest, there is going to plenty of growing pains. It is important that the message be clear and concise and understandable. I am all for dreaming big but in practice you need to make sure you arent offering the moon because if you fall short it is a long way to fall.

We will never have a better chance than right now. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot with arrogance.

Not only do you need the people on board, at minimum you need the Senate where you can at least try that bull**** budgeting trick to bypass the filibuster they used for Trump's "healthcare". We've had the people on tougher gun laws for a decade and can't even manage a vote.

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

BTW what did poke do?

transphobic attacks on another poster

[mookie1995]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

by the way, I used the Bernie tax plan calculator, and I'm going to be paying more. I'll have thousands less in take-home pay. I'm still okay voting for him, especially over Trump.

Did you add the hc premiums you currentLy pay back to your take home?

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I’m meeting with Amy’s Ex COS soon, who is known as a brilliant strategist. I’m going to pick his brains on how to communicate around healthcare. The orcs are a lost cause- but there’s others to talk to.
My first thought is to lay out OECD data, show people how badly we perform while spending 3x as much. Show how much of your money is going to premiums, out of pocket costs, and then think about what you don’t get checked out because you don’t want to spend $350 on an office visit. I’m guilty of that.
And then start showing how much we spend on dumps golf trips. The corporate tax break, and the absurd military spending.
Many of these middle of the road people are one illness away from bankruptcy.

I’m never gonna get on board with free college- that’s nonsense and we should reduce costs for those who qualify for it. Among other things.

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Did you add the hc premiums you currentLy pay back to your take home?

yes, I included it in my out of pocket healthcare costs

[psych]

Not only do you need the people on board, at minimum you need the Senate where you can at least try that bull**** budgeting trick to bypass the filibuster they used for Trump's "healthcare". We've had the people on tougher gun laws for a decade and can't even manage a vote.

Budget reconciliation, complete with the Byrd Rule, which, while it can only be used once a year, can still be used to push through a lot of s**t, like the ACA in the first place. Democrats can stretch it to the limits if they take back the Senate, but that’s a huge, huge if.