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Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

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  • Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    The automakers agreed to start shutting that Thursday (3/19), which is ~150k auto workers. Whitmer's executive order was enacted 3/24.

    Next week, the report of total unemployed will likely double again.
    “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

    Live Radio from 100.3

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    • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

      Originally posted by aparch View Post
      The automakers agreed to start shutting that Thursday (3/19), which is ~150k auto workers. Whitmer's executive order was enacted 3/24.

      Next week, the report of total unemployed will likely double again.
      I think it'll be interesting to see what actually happens next week.

      Tomorrow the Paycheck Protection Program kicks off and they start processing the loans.

      For those not familiar (I assume there aren't a ton of small business owners among the posters here), the PPP is part of the $2 trillion stimulus package designed to help small businesses (less than 500 employees). It's also intended to help self employed or those in the "gig" economy.

      Basically, it works like this.

      The business goes to their bank and takes out a loan. The loan is for an amount equal to eight weeks of their payroll. Payroll includes pay, commissions, tips, as well as some employee costs like group health insurance, retirement, and state payroll taxes. The loan also covers eight weeks of either rent or the interest you pay on your mortgage, whichever is applicable. Finally, the loan is for eight weeks of your utility expenses.

      I think the loan amount that you are eligible for is actually slightly more than the eight weeks, but that's the basics.

      Then, if the business uses the money to pay those costs, the loan is 100% forgiven. Basically, the government will pay eight weeks of your payroll, utilities and rent.

      The only catch for businesses. They have to keep their employees on the payroll (or restore them to the payroll) for those eight weeks, at the same compensation rate.

      I think you are going to see almost 100% of the businesses in this country with fewer than 500 employees try to obtain this loan. In fact, I don't think the $350 billion they set aside for the program will come close to covering it, but we'll see.

      This all starts tomorrow, and from what I've seen and heard, there will be an avalanche of loans going out, which should mean a huge number of employees going back on the payroll at restaurants, bars, etc...

      But we'll see, I guess.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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      • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

        Good information Hovey, thanks.
        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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        • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

          At this point, how much does attrition of the situation add as we get into May and June as well?

          Restaurants seem to be finding that the "take out & delivery" model can be a feast/famine deal. Some seem to be selling out of a day's goods almost daily. (Although I do admit that I don't know what this means for profitability. It could be enough to keep the lights on short term, but not last past 6-12 months) Others have had the well run dry already and decided to 86 the whole operation after just a week or two.

          Sidenote to AParch: Crusade Burger bar out in Yorkville (or Sourveign in Plainfield) if you want to help out a local business
          It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

          Go Cats!!! GO BLACKHAWKS!

          Cuck the Fubs... Let's Go WHITE SOX!!!

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          • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

            Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
            They’re not competent, schiff is now saying the commission to look into the pandemic criminality won’t start until after the election.

            I have to think these numbers so t have a ton of white collar people yet. You add those in next six weeks...wow.
            What would looking into it now do? It will take months to figure anything out and honestly none of it will matter as there are bigger fish to fry. (not to mention it will make them look petty since we know the media wont frame it well)

            Sorry but Schiff is right.
            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
            -aparch

            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
            -INCH

            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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            • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
              What would looking into it now do? It will take months to figure anything out and honestly none of it will matter as there are bigger fish to fry. (not to mention it will make them look petty since we know the media wont frame it well)

              Sorry but Schiff is right.
              Sorry, I’m with Kevin kruse on this one. Today, early April? No. In the hope things slow a bit, Congress should still do its oversight job and investigate crimes before 2021
              I’m working all day and won’t be able to respond all day so I guess we’ll just agree to disagree.

              Comment


              • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                The only way to deal with these criminals is afterwards. I am fine with not going anywhere near an investigation until the pandemic is contained. However we cannot repeat the mistakes of 1977, 1993 and 2009. If we can pry this criminal conspiracy away from the levers of power we have to follow it up with thorough investigations, trials, convictions, and punishments.

                We have to make a stand or another bunch of thugs will do the same thing someday and this time maybe they won't be idiots. Putin is basically Dump if he was capable. It can happen here. It is happening here; we're just "lucky" because on the first run it was a lazy putrescent dunce. The next time it might be a hard working attractive mastermind. And then we'll be done.

                And before you righties scoff, there is absolutely no reason why the next time it can't come from the Left. So get on the bus.
                Cornell University
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                • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                  Originally posted by aparch View Post
                  This is for the week ending 3/21, which is the week that Illinois (and others) issued shelter-in-place orders, but NOT Michigan and others who put them in place last week.

                  So, 6.6 New Unemployment claims. Plus the 3.3 from the week ending 3/14.

                  So 10 Million people lost their jobs in the last two weeks. In two weeks, the US has darn near matched 2008 numbers, and another wave will be added next week.
                  if at the end of this we don't separate health coverage from employment, there is truly no hope whatsoever.
                  a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                  • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                    Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
                    At this point, how much does attrition of the situation add as we get into May and June as well?

                    Restaurants seem to be finding that the "take out & delivery" model can be a feast/famine deal. Some seem to be selling out of a day's goods almost daily. (Although I do admit that I don't know what this means for profitability. It could be enough to keep the lights on short term, but not last past 6-12 months) Others have had the well run dry already and decided to 86 the whole operation after just a week or two.

                    Sidenote to AParch: Crusade Burger bar out in Yorkville (or Sourveign in Plainfield) if you want to help out a local business
                    A very popular restaurant in the area did curbside and a day later shut down. The loss of bar revenue amongst other add ons that get lost when doing curbside made it unprofitable. I think this will happen more and more the longer this goes.

                    Hovey,

                    Not one small business I know is applying for the PPP program loans but they are mostly restaurants and other service jobs so the PPP program wont much help them. I a trying oto convince one friend who has a small pizza franchise to do it though because he hasnt lost enough business to close so he is treading water. (though business is on the rise) Thanks for the info

                    I dont think the PPP will help abate the unemployment wave much, but it will help keep some small businesses afloat which is nice.

                    Meanwhile yesterday Goldman said Q2 is gonna be a bloodbath financially but now is trying to claim there will be a historic recovery in Q3. Somehow I am doubting that...
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      The only way to deal with these criminals is afterwards. I am fine with not going anywhere near an investigation until the pandemic is contained. However we cannot repeat the mistakes of 1977, 1993 and 2009. If we can pry this criminal conspiracy away from the levers of power we have to follow it up with thorough investigations, trials, convictions, and punishments.

                      We have to make a stand or another bunch of thugs will do the same thing someday and this time maybe they won't be idiots. Putin is basically Dump if he was capable. It can happen here. It is happening here; we're just "lucky" because on the first run it was a lazy putrescent dunce. The next time it might be a hard working attractive mastermind. And then we'll be done.

                      And before you righties scoff, there is absolutely no reason why the next time it can't come from the Left. So get on the bus.
                      Define after though. Middle of 2021? The scum may be out of office. If we’re back to some normalcy/containment levels this fall I think it’s ok to have hearings. I guess they can still go to jail if they’re out of office but...who am I kidding .
                      I’m all for not doing it now, I just don’t like the “it’ll be next year sometime” mentality because then lawlessness will abound.
                      Wait who am I kidding.

                      Sorry guys I’m just excited today. Working with some of faucis team today

                      Comment


                      • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                        A very popular restaurant in the area did curbside and a day later shut down. The loss of bar revenue amongst other add ons that get lost when doing curbside made it unprofitable. I think this will happen more and more the longer this goes.

                        Hovey,

                        Not one small business I know is applying for the PPP program loans but they are mostly restaurants and other service jobs so the PPP program wont much help them. I a trying oto convince one friend who has a small pizza franchise to do it though because he hasnt lost enough business to close so he is treading water. (though business is on the rise) Thanks for the info

                        I dont think the PPP will help abate the unemployment wave much, but it will help keep some small businesses afloat which is nice.

                        Meanwhile yesterday Goldman said Q2 is gonna be a bloodbath financially but now is trying to claim there will be a historic recovery in Q3. Somehow I am doubting that...
                        I'm sure the loss of profit from pop alone is a big hit since that has the single biggest markup of any item that's sold.
                        It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

                        Go Cats!!! GO BLACKHAWKS!

                        Cuck the Fubs... Let's Go WHITE SOX!!!

                        Wildcat Born, Wildcat Bred....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Meanwhile yesterday Goldman said Q2 is gonna be a bloodbath financially but now is trying to claim there will be a historic recovery in Q3. Somehow I am doubting that...
                          CNBC's talking heads estimated Q4 as the upturn for the last week. When the Goldman Sachs outlook was read this morning, I'm pretty sure I heard audible laughter from the hosts.


                          Also, Hovey, I misspoke on the reply to F2B&G. Michigan will easily double next week. Nationally... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think it's going to be another two mil.


                          Raceboarder: Saving both to my Google Maps, but would most likely visit the Yorkville location if I get out for a drive this weekend and wanna grab lunch. Been stopping by once a week for tacos at a fantastic place super close to my house: Jefa Tacos in Aurora.
                          “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                          Live Radio from 100.3

                          Comment


                          • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                            A very popular restaurant in the area did curbside and a day later shut down. The loss of bar revenue amongst other add ons that get lost when doing curbside made it unprofitable. I think this will happen more and more the longer this goes.
                            I think the more upscale sit-down restaurants that depend heavily on liquor sales are just trying to burn up what's left of their inventory before they shut down. There's a couple here in my town that are slowly eliminating items from their GrubHub/DoorDash/UberEats menus as they run out of them, and I figure in about another week they will probably both close.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                              if at the end of this we don't separate health coverage from employment, there is truly no hope whatsoever.
                              Preach!
                              “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                              Live Radio from 100.3

                              Comment


                              • Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                A very popular restaurant in the area did curbside and a day later shut down. The loss of bar revenue amongst other add ons that get lost when doing curbside made it unprofitable. I think this will happen more and more the longer this goes.

                                Hovey,

                                Not one small business I know is applying for the PPP program loans but they are mostly restaurants and other service jobs so the PPP program wont much help them. I a trying oto convince one friend who has a small pizza franchise to do it though because he hasnt lost enough business to close so he is treading water. (though business is on the rise) Thanks for the info

                                I dont think the PPP will help abate the unemployment wave much, but it will help keep some small businesses afloat which is nice.

                                Meanwhile yesterday Goldman said Q2 is gonna be a bloodbath financially but now is trying to claim there will be a historic recovery in Q3. Somehow I am doubting that...
                                I'm not sure why small businesses wouldn't do it. The only thing that I can think of is if they leave their laid off employees on unemployment the employees may actually get checks larger than their normal paycheck due to the fed unemployment bonus of $600/week.

                                My sister owns a bar and restaurant in Tucson and she is doing it. If you do it or if you don't do it and lay the employees off, either way you don't have any employee costs. But if you do the loan, you'll get help with the mortgage interest or rent, plus utilities.

                                There is a possibility that not all of the mortgage interest, rent or utilities will be forgiven. I understand there is a chance that the actual amount forgiven will be between 25% and 100% depending upon demand for the loans. But payroll is 100% forgiven, so it puzzles me why a restaurant or bar wouldn't do the loan, unless they have no rent or mortgage, and no utility expense that they'll have to pay.
                                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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