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  • Re: 2019-20 pwr

    Originally posted by NUProf View Post
    There are a couple of outcomes that could avoid this, the biggest chance being that UST beats Concordia. The location of UST in the Twin Cities puts a UST/Lake Forest/UWEC triple in play. It still would put Geneseo in a first round game, but the byes would go 1,2,3,6 in that scenario.
    If Stevens Point gets in (and they have a very good chance to with a win), a trio of Concordia/Eau Claire/Stevens Point works too.

    St. Norbert is 515 miles from Concordia so if SNC wins the NCHA that does not help as things stand.
    Last edited by SomeRandomGuy; 03-02-2020, 12:29 PM.

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    • Re: 2019-20 pwr

      Originally posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
      NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

      You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.
      It's a mandate to MINIMIZE costs, but not necessarily how, even though the suggestion is no flights the first two rounds.

      But take a look at the overall fights for the entire tournament -- (two western teams fly to Buffalo) or (one western team flies to Buffalo plus one team flies in the quarters). Overall, that's still two flights for the entire tournament.
      Russell Jaslow
      [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
      U.S. College Hockey Online

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      • Re: 2019-20 pwr

        Originally posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
        NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

        You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.
        Adrian could go to Geneseo or Hobart for a quarterfinal, but Concordia and Lake Forest would have to fly if they were to win first round games. The NCAA will arrange it so that no flights are necessary, even if it makes no bracket sense.
        2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
        2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
        2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
        2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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        • Re: 2019-20 pwr

          Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
          It's a mandate to MINIMIZE costs, but not necessarily how, even though the suggestion is no flights the first two rounds.

          But take a look at the overall fights for the entire tournament -- (two western teams fly to Buffalo) or (one western team flies to Buffalo plus one team flies in the quarters). Overall, that's still two flights for the entire tournament.
          It's only 350 or so miles from Adrian to Buffalo. So (with this field) all four byes in the west give you at least a 50/50 shot of only one total flight.

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          • Re: 2019-20 pwr

            Originally posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
            It's only 350 or so miles from Adrian to Buffalo. So (with this field) all four byes in the west give you at least a 50/50 shot of only one total flight.

            Good point.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

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            • Re: 2019-20 pwr

              Originally posted by pete99race View Post
              Keep an eye on Point....they have gained five positions in the PWR in the last two weeks.
              If they beat Eau Claire on Saturday at home....better than 50/50 odds they do...can they jump over Babson or LFC to gain a Pool C bid?
              Assumes all conference leaders, in front of them in the PWR, win.
              But, if SNC beats Adrian on Saturday to get the NCHA auto bid, and Adrian gets a Pool C....and Point may be the first team outside looking in.
              So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....
              This is why I wish someone had a PWR calculator for D3. SNC beating Adrian would help Point's ranking since they have a win over SNC and that would trickle down through opponents of opponents. But would it help enough to make up for another AQ from outside the top 12?

              If it helps enough and doesn't knock out Lake Forest, you're looking at possibly six teams from the west.

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              • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                Just to illustrate the arbitrary nature of the 500 mile rule...the NCAA would have no problem with UWSP traveling by bus to Adrian (492 miles), but wouldn't consider making UWEC make essentially the same trip (548 miles).
                5x NCAA D3 Ice Hockey Champion: 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2018
                2x Super Bowl Champion: XLII, XLVI

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                • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                  Originally posted by Quasi Hatrack View Post
                  This is why I wish someone had a PWR calculator for D3. SNC beating Adrian would help Point's ranking since they have a win over SNC and that would trickle down through opponents of opponents. But would it help enough to make up for another AQ from outside the top 12?

                  If it helps enough and doesn't knock out Lake Forest, you're looking at possibly six teams from the west.
                  An SNC win should benefit Lake Forest as well, as Lake Forest has two road wins over SNC.
                  5x NCAA D3 Ice Hockey Champion: 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2018
                  2x Super Bowl Champion: XLII, XLVI

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                  • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                    Originally posted by Tom Coughlin View Post
                    Just to illustrate the arbitrary nature of the 500 mile rule...the NCAA would have no problem with UWSP traveling by bus to Adrian (492 miles), but wouldn't consider making UWEC make essentially the same trip (548 miles).
                    That doesn't bother me. You have to draw a line somewhere. Otherwise you end up justifying busing teams 900 miles. Or more.
                    Russell Jaslow
                    [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                    U.S. College Hockey Online

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                    • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                      Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                      It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

                      It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.
                      Could not agree more.

                      The tournament teams should be seeded, sited and -most significantly- selected purely on the basis of merit.

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                      • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                        They don’t even select the field by what you call “merit” for D1 hoops. Every qualified conference gets an AQ and the league tournament determines the champ in every case. Most leagues include all teams in their tourney, too
                        Last edited by NUProf; 03-02-2020, 03:44 PM.
                        2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                        2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                        2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                        2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                          Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                          They don’t even select the field by what you call “merit” for D1 hoops. Every qualified conference gets an AQ and the league tournament determines the champ in every case. Most leagues include all teams in their tourney, too
                          I realize that. I wasn't singling-out hockey in that regard. The AQ-effect in hoops is somewhat diluted by the size of the field, though, and feels less egregious. (As in, you don't see a legitimate 11-seed displaced by a 47-seed.)

                          I'd prefer that the entire field be calculated by an objective metric, conference-affiliation be ****ed. (But, yes... That ain't gonna happen.)

                          So how about this: all eligible conferences get an AQ, but on the basis of the PWR, not on the basis of the tournament winner. (The conference tournaments are fun -go ahead and play them- but consider the results strictly as additional PWR fodder.) Then, seed and site the teams on the basis, again, of the PWR...

                          Funding a couple of plane trips would be pocket-change compared to the football/hoops revenue. The time has come to get it right(er)!
                          Last edited by Fishman'81; 03-02-2020, 06:16 PM.

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                          • Re: 2019-20 pwr

                            Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                            Norwich has been hurt in the RPI by having to play Castleton and USM. Although your RPI doesn't take a hit if you win those games, it doesn't advance either, and Utica is getting a better quality of opposition. This is one of the problems with the RPI (and yes, Fishy, also the KRACH). You don't control who is on your schedule once the puck drops for the season.

                            My take (based on the PWR as of this morning)

                            Pool A (conferences in alphabetical order - assuming top surving seed wins)
                            CCC Endicott (7)
                            MASCAC Plymouth (47)
                            MIAC Concordia (MN) (30)
                            NCHA Adrian (5)
                            NEHC Norwich (1)
                            NESCAC Williams (11)
                            SUNYAC Geneseo (4)
                            UCHC Utica (2)

                            Pool C
                            Hobart (3)
                            UWEC (6)
                            Lake Forest (8)
                            Babson (9)

                            My (potentially flawed) reading of matchups (as of now)

                            "Geneva Regional"
                            Adrian/Geneseo —> Hobart

                            "Eau Clare Regional"
                            Concordia/Lake Forest —> UWEC

                            "Utica Regional"
                            Plymouth/Endicott —> Utica

                            "Northfield Regional"
                            Williams/Babson —> Norwich

                            UNE's loss drops them of Pool A, and out of Pool C as well, Babson now has the last Pool C slot. Endicott moves up to a Pool A spot

                            I would guess that if Utica passes Norwich in the PWR that their opponents would switch in the quarters.
                            What does Babson need to stay in? Obviously they need some help but are there chances to be in higher then we think? Especially if there are 8 teams in the East. My thought is they will be the last team in or will the committee not want 3 NEHC teams in the tournament, even though that happened last year with UMB.

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                            • Originally posted by MAHockey1 View Post
                              What does Babson need to stay in? Obviously they need some help but are there chances to be in higher then we think? Especially if there are 8 teams in the East. My thought is they will be the last team in or will the committee not want 3 NEHC teams in the tournament, even though that happened last year with UMB.
                              No upsets !


                              "FEAR THE BIRD!"

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                              • Originally posted by Birdwatcher View Post
                                No upsets !
                                What if Stevens Point upsets Eau-Claire? Does that affect Babson and other teams in the East or will they not give the WIAC 2 bids...

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