2019-20 pwr

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

I like the transparency of the PWR, but personally I miss the human touch of the smoke filled room.

Just one example:
Both Stevens Point and LFC are 18-6-3

-Stevens Point has not lost since 12/7/19
-LFC is 1-4-2 in their last 7 games (1-5-2 if you count their MG loss to Trine.)

If the season ended today, LFC is in.

If Concordia wins the MIAC, get ready for more drama after Point beats Eau Claire for a third time this season, perhaps leaving the entire WIAC out of the tournament.

I wouldn't mind seeing the WIAC left out - they bigfooted the NCHA and would deserve what they can reap as a consequence, but I think the chances of chocolate Eclairs not making the field are pretty remote.

Concordia's main impact is the 500 mile rule problems. The basis of awarding first round byes has always been based on proximity of opponents both in the smoky room days and now. It does seem that the NCAA gives more flexibility to some of the other sports in allowing for early round flights.

[UCBadger]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Of course the elephant in the room is coronavirus. What happens if CDC strongly recommends not holding (if not prohibits) large events which brings people from other parts of the country together? (Looking at the NCAA basketball tournament)

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

So the top four teams in the pairwise would not get a first round bye due to mileage? That is just absurd to me. I'll argue this like Fish argues the A.Q. vs. Regular season. So basically punish teams in the east or west just because of distance. Dumbest **** s*** I've ever heard of!

Yep. And it's happened before and everyone went apesh*t.

It's even worse in football, where two perennial top ten teams almost always have to face each other in the first round (of a 32-team tournament!), because they are the only opponents they can face within 500 miles. It's insane.

Fish talks about throwing a few extra bucks to make hockey proper, but that's a narrow view of it. All D3 sports need a few extra bucks thrown their way to make their tournaments equitable. It adds up. And in the NCAA eyes, it adds up to too much, even though it's still a pittance in the grand budget.

[altazo]

I wouldn't mind seeing the WIAC left out - they bigfooted the NCHA and would deserve what they can reap as a consequence, but I think the chances of chocolate Eclairs not making the field are pretty remote.

Concordia's main impact is the 500 mile rule problems. The basis of awarding first round byes has always been based on proximity of opponents both in the smoky room days and now. It does seem that the NCAA gives more flexibility to some of the other sports in allowing for early round flights.

I don’t mind if the WIAC is left out either, but I do think the 18 (perhaps soon to be 19) win, defending National champions, who have not lost a game in 3 months should somehow be included.

Yes, I know they had a horrible start to the season and the PWR numbers are what they are.

I get it. Math.

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

I don’t mind if the WIAC is left out either, but I do think the 18 (perhaps soon to be 19) win, defending National champions, who have not lost a game in 3 months should somehow be included.

Yes, I know they had a horrible start to the season and the PWR numbers are what they are.

I get it. Math.

Not to sound like a jerk, then why bring it up?

It's PWR, PWR, PWR, PWR and absolutely nothing else. No eye test. No defending champions criteria. PWR, PWR, PWR, and absolutely nothing else.

[altazo]

Not to sound like a jerk, then why bring it up?

It's PWR, PWR, PWR, PWR and absolutely nothing else. No eye test. No defending champions criteria. PWR, PWR, PWR, and absolutely nothing else.

Just because I’m bringing up the idea that I still kinda miss that “eye test” the ‘ol smoke filled room used to bring. Not saying that’s right or wrong, just a thought.

I think it is insane Norwich hasn’t given up a goal in 8 games.

I think it is insane Point hasn’t lost a game in 3 months.

I ain’t mad about it. You sound kinda mad...

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just because I’m bringing up the idea that I still kinda miss that “eye test” the ‘ol smoke filled room used to bring. Not saying that’s right or wrong, just a thought.

I think it is insane Norwich hasn’t given up a goal in 8 games.

I know.

I think it is insane Point hasn’t lost a game in 3 months.

I know.

I ain’t mad about it. You sound kinda mad...

I know. And I'm not.

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Yep. And it's happened before and everyone went apesh*t.

Fish talks about throwing a few extra bucks to make hockey proper, but that's a narrow view of it. All D3 sports need a few extra bucks thrown their way to make their tournaments equitable. It adds up. And in the NCAA eyes, it adds up to too much, even though it's still a pittance in the grand budget.

It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.

Meanwhile, the facts are that if the field for the NCAA turns out like this:

CCC -Endicott (7)
MASCAC -Plymouth (47)
MIAC - Concordia (MN) (37)
NCHA - Adrian (5)
NEHC - Norwich (2)
NESCAC - Williams (11)
SUNYAC - Geneseo (4)
UCHC - Utica (1)

Pool C
Hobart (3)
UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8)
Babson (9)

Three facts will drive the bracket

1. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Concordia is UWEC at 327 miles
2. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Lake Forest is Adrian at 263 miles
3. The rules require flights if a trip is more than 500 miles and flights are to be avoided in the first two rounds.

This means we get two regionals - a 4 team West regional and an 8 team East regional. It is what it is.

West - Quarter finals

Concordia (37) at UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8) Adrian (5)

East

First Round

Plymouth (47) at Utica (1)
Williams (11) at Norwich (2)
Babson (6) at Hobart (3)
Edicott (7) at Geneseo (4)

Quarter Finals

Endicott/Geneseo vs Plymouth/Utica
Babson/Hobart vs. Williams/Norwich

Yes, in a 12 team tournament this gives the four first round byes to the teams that would be seeded 5,6,8 and 11, but what the heck, at least the top 6 teams all get a home game

[Tom Coughlin]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Gotcha, it must have been 2012. It’s really hard to keep all these National championship seasons straight. It’s the cross we bear as fans of SNC.

Maybe it was 08, or 11? Or maybe 18?

[pete99race]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Keep an eye on Point....they have gained five positions in the PWR in the last two weeks.
If they beat Eau Claire on Saturday at home....better than 50/50 odds they do...can they jump over Babson or LFC to gain a Pool C bid?
Assumes all conference leaders, in front of them in the PWR, win.
But, if SNC beats Adrian on Saturday to get the NCHA auto bid, and Adrian gets a Pool C....and Point may be the first team outside looking in.
So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....

[UCBadger]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

.......
So many different outcomes still possible, but it is fun to speculate....

And we have a whole week to do it!

[IceKnights20]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

It's not just hockey for sure but because (I think) we follow it more closely than other people follow other D3 sports, the impact is clearer to us.

It just amazes me that the NCAA can talk all piously about "student-athletes" (A concept I really believe in, by the way), and not give adequate support to the division that houses the greatest number of true student-athletes. This is the height of hypocrisy, but not the only hypocrisy exhibited by that organization.

Meanwhile, the facts are that if the field for the NCAA turns out like this:

CCC -Endicott (7)
MASCAC -Plymouth (47)
MIAC - Concordia (MN) (37)
NCHA - Adrian (5)
NEHC - Norwich (2)
NESCAC - Williams (11)
SUNYAC - Geneseo (4)
UCHC - Utica (1)

Pool C
Hobart (3)
UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8)
Babson (9)

Three facts will drive the bracket

1. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Concordia is UWEC at 327 miles
2. The only qualifier within 500 miles of Lake Forest is Adrian at 263 miles
3. The rules require flights if a trip is more than 500 miles and flights are to be avoided in the first two rounds.

This means we get two regionals - a 4 team West regional and an 8 team East regional. It is what it is.

West - Quarter finals

Concordia (37) at UWEC (6)
Lake Forest (8) Adrian (5)

East

First Round

Plymouth (47) at Utica (1)
Williams (11) at Norwich (2)
Babson (6) at Hobart (3)
Edicott (7) at Geneseo (4)

Quarter Finals

Endicott/Geneseo vs Plymouth/Utica
Babson/Hobart vs. Williams/Norwich

Yes, in a 12 team tournament this gives the four first round byes to the teams that would be seeded 5,6,8 and 11, but what the heck, at least the top 6 teams all get a home game

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

[NUProf]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

The proximity rule. If possible (and the example I gave shows it is possible), teams will not travel more than 500 miles for a first or second round game due to NCAA stipulations. The NCAA has done this before, and will do it again. There are a couple of outcomes that could avoid this, the biggest chance being that UST beats Concordia. The location of UST in the Twin Cities puts a UST/Lake Forest/UWEC triple in play. It still would put Geneseo in a first round game, but the byes would go 1,2,3,6 in that scenario.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

If the top 4 teams in the country are in the east why would we assume that the byes would go west? Why not make the west teams play down to 1 semifinalist? That would give you the possibility of 3 of the top 4 teams in the semifinals instead of 2 of 4 with the byes in the west.

NCAA rules say a team that is more than 500 miles away from an NCAA tournament opponent must be flown, at NCAA expense, for the game. And in D3 (in all sports) there is a mandate to minimize costs by minimizing flights.

You could do a first round of Concordia at Eau Claire and Lake Forest at Adrian without a flight for either game. But when you get to the quarters it would be more than 500 miles from Concordia and from Adrian to either of their possible opponents. So the only way you get through that bracket without at least one flight is if Lake Forest and Eau Claire win. And the NCAA probably won't take that chance.

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2019-20 pwr

Just to make Fish's head explode:

In the D3 NCAA basketball tournament, Brooklyn College got the AQ for winning the CUNYAC. It was a huge upset. Their overall record is 13-15.

{Taking a step back...}