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Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

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  • Originally posted by burd View Post
    First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
    And also...actually vote

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    • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

      Originally posted by burd View Post
      First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
      This.

      Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
      And also...actually vote
      And this.
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      • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

        Originally posted by The Rube View Post
        And I have also said the money is there. The issue is getting stuff passed/enacted. Heck, we could easily solve the Homeless/Hungry problem, too, if we reallocated money.
        I doubt that. Many homeless people are crazy - not pejoratively, actually. There's a large adult subset who try to actively avoid the societal norms for whatever specific reason, so they end up on the streets. We can help those who are simply down on their luck financially, the abused or the LGBTQ kids who were had to flee a dangerous home, but we are not in a place to help everybody because it would require some sort of coercion.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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        • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

          Originally posted by burd View Post
          First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
          We created homelessness in the 70s by adopting the "entrepreneurial" (read: neglecting and sociopathic) economy, which was a horrible mistake, and by abolishing involuntary holds at loony bins, which was well-intended but also needed to be accompanied by enormous investment in care which of course no selfish shortsighted Republican as-shole was ever going to go for.

          The downfall of America was when we started to craft policy to appeal to the LOL "conservatives" -- the worst 33% of us. We should have told those losers to sit down, shut up, and maybe we wouldn't cut off their government cheese.

          We should do that now.
          Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020, 09:30 AM.
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          • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

            Few people actually believe in trickle down economics anymore. The poors aren't voting GOP because they think they'll get some benefit from billionaire tax cuts. They're voting GOP on racial issues.

            Regarding Kep's comment about crafting policies to appeal to conservatives, sadly 40 years ago and for a decade or so afterwards the majority of people actually believed that sh it, not 33%. They might still believe it had Clinton not crushed that notion both in his 1992 campaign and his subsequent handling of tax/budget/economic policy which laid waste to the idea that tax hikes on the rich would hurt the economy. That's been a major shift in attitude from the public, which is why the last two tax hiking Dem Presidents were both overwhelmingly re-elected when previously that was thought to be electoral death.
            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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            • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

              Originally posted by Rover View Post
              Few people actually believe in trickle down economics anymore. The poors aren't voting GOP because they think they'll get some benefit from billionaire tax cuts. They're voting GOP on racial issues.

              Regarding Kep's comment about crafting policies to appeal to conservatives, sadly 40 years ago and for a decade or so afterwards the majority of people actually believed that sh it, not 33%. They might still believe it had Clinton not crushed that notion both in his 1992 campaign and his subsequent handling of tax/budget/economic policy which laid waste to the idea that tax hikes on the rich would hurt the economy. That's been a major shift in attitude from the public, which is why the last two tax hiking Dem Presidents were both overwhelmingly re-elected when previously that was thought to be electoral death.
              When raising the marginal tax rate on high income earners, Clinton also cut the capital gains tax. People looked from one to the other and said that the CGT cut outweighed the MTR increase as most rich people get the majority of their income from capital gains and not wages and salary.
              "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

              "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

              "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

              Comment


              • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                Originally posted by burd View Post
                First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
                Those "hikes" were 3% when they should have been 30% on the highest incomes.
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                • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                  Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                  When raising the marginal tax rate on high income earners, Clinton also cut the capital gains tax. People looked from one to the other and said that the CGT cut outweighed the MTR increase as most rich people get the majority of their income from capital gains and not wages and salary.
                  Since those were enacted 4 years apart, can you link me a study from those people who looked at it?
                  Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                  Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                  "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                  • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                    I didnt realize we can go back in time and take the money from the Forever War to pay for Free College! I would have thought we would have heard of that by now Bernie truly is the Doc Brown of American Politics (and he is emailing me like 14 times a day right now...hey Bernard I am on vacation!!! )



                    I am all for raising taxes to pay for Free College (at least 2 years) but lets remember the truth here. We dont have the money for it now. We didnt have it when we started the stupid wars (hence our debt skyrocketing) and we dont now. Some like to frame it that it is either/or when in truth it isnt. BACK THEN it may have been either/or (it wasnt because Free College wasnt even seriously being considered) but right now we are way past that. That money is gone.
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                    • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                      We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country. We literally just decided to give away 2 trillion to billionaires for no reason and supposedly didn't have that money then either.

                      (also you can change the frequency of those emails pretty easily )
                      Last edited by trixR4kids; 01-09-2020, 11:06 AM.

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                      • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                        Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                        We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country.
                        That is it exactly. Conservative things get paid for by debt, but somehow Liberal things have to be pay as you go.

                        And this is despite the fact that Conservative things are sterile and lose value (military spending, corporate giveaways, tax cuts for the rich) while Liberal things are productive and add value (child care, health care, education).

                        It's exactly reversed. Conservatives should have to pay for everything they do with revenue neutral measures, while Liberals should finance their measures on debt because they more than pay for themselves. That would be fiscal responsibility.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020, 11:11 AM.
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                        • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                          Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                          We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country.
                          the way we pay for things is dumb. we shouldn't be running trillion dollar deficits when we aren't in recession

                          Comment


                          • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                            Originally posted by burd View Post
                            That money is gone.
                            Actually, it isn't. It's in the Caymans with the other $50T the 1% have looted. All we need do is go get it. They stole it. It isn't theirs.

                            "Moral hazard" isn't recovering it. It's letting the crooks get away with it. The fact that they used the government to steal it doesn't make it any more legitimate than when Marcos or Putin or Milosevic or Magabe or Suharto did it.
                            Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020, 11:16 AM.
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                            • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                              Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                              the way we pay for things is dumb. we shouldn't be running trillion dollar deficits when we aren't in recession
                              The way we pay for it isn't the problem, the priorities of what they pay for is. This is why we should elect the candidate most likely to end forever wars, fund the IRS and aggressively tax billionaires, and supports programs like GND that create surpluses. You could reasonably pay down some of the debt that way and realistically we don't need to pay it down to zero anytime soon.

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                              • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                                Originally posted by burd View Post
                                First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
                                Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                                The way we pay for it isn't the problem, the priorities of what they pay for is. This is why we should elect the candidate most likely to end forever wars, fund the IRS and aggressively tax billionaires, and supports programs like GND that create surpluses. You could reasonably pay down some of the debt that way and realistically we don't need to pay it down to zero anytime soon.
                                Correct. Change the priorities. Use the tax code to end the deficit. Go after tax evaders with Draconian penalties to discourage them from their criminality. Let the debt gradually inflate down to trivial levels in a few decades. Only use debt to finance programs with long term benefits to most Americans. Forever stop the government from serving rich minorities by having strongly distributive fiscal policy.
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