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  • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Bernie Sanders won a senate seat that had been under Republican control for over 100 years.

    Also I love the implicit bias here where "blowout losses" are somehow treated as being significantly worse than close losses by centrists that delivered us Bush x2 and the current idiot.
    So Vermont is your example of socialists winning tough races?
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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    • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

      In your mind would a seat that's been held by the opposite party for 100 years suffice as a tough race?

      Comment


      • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        Show me Bernie style candidates winning swing districts and I'm on board
        Bernie straight up whupped Hillary head-to-head in Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin in 2016; dominating the swing district of the whole United States. What did the Democrats do next? They shrieked with fright and nominated Hillary anyway, as some kind of weird apology for existing. big OOF!
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        • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

          Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
          Bernie Sanders won a senate seat that had been under Republican control for over 100 years.

          Also I love the implicit bias here where "blowout losses" are somehow treated as being significantly worse than close losses by centrists that delivered us Bush x2 and the current idiot.
          They are significantly worse. Are you suggesting that losing like Mondale or Carter did is not more telling than "losing" like Gore did? At least he put up a fight...

          All losses hurt badly, but if you lose 40-49 states you set things back even farther. The Centrists you and your #NoMiddleGround crowd spit on every twelve seconds may be sellouts and full on cronies but at least they come out and vote. That is Rover's point. Until the Far Left proves they will be a force on Election Day how can they be trusted? Right now if I was a Dem strategist I wouldnt count on them if anyone but Bernie wins the nom.

          This is a lynchpin moment in history for Progressive Wing. They can do for the Dems what the Tea Party or Freedumb Caucus did for the Right. (move the agenda and get a beach head that allows them to shape platform for a generation) The first step was getting more representation in Washington (which Reps like Ilhan and AOC did and are helping do) and the second step is showing you are force at the ballot box on a more national scale. (Senators and President) If they turn the tide this election (no matter the candidate) and the Dems take back the WH the Progressives will have clout coming out their ying yangs. Once you have that, the world is your oyster. AOC has already proven she knows how to play the game so if they just give her enough chips they will have more power than they will know what to do with. That is what the Country needs, and it is definitely what the Democratic Party needs.
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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          • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

            In 2016 Dem white males were still apologizing for existing.

            We learned the rest of the world doesn't give a sh-t about Our Deeply Held Feelings of Guilty and Concern.

            I'm guessing that won't happen this time. After all, if the choice is Bernie/Biden then the Identity Types don't have a leg to stand on -- it's all breast no leg.
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            • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

              Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
              In your mind would a seat that's been held by the opposite party for 100 years suffice as a tough race?
              No, if the politics of the state had changed over that time. By that logic, conservatives will be winning a tough race if they flip Joe Manchin's seat once he retires, since he succeeded Robert Byrd who held that seat for ages. That makes no sense, even by your standards...
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

              Comment


              • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                Originally posted by geezer View Post
                Bernie straight up whupped Hillary head-to-head in Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin in 2016; dominating the swing district of the whole United States. What did the Democrats do next? They shrieked with fright and nominated Hillary anyway, as some kind of weird apology for existing. big OOF!
                I especially liked Sanders 43-56 victory in the Ohio primary.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_O...cratic_primary
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                Comment


                • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                  Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                  They are significantly worse. Are you suggesting that losing like Mondale or Carter did is not more telling than "losing" like Gore did? At least he put up a fight...
                  Uh no, they compromised the principles of the party that supposedly represents the working class and still lost achieving the exact same outcome against embarrassingly stupid candidates.

                  All losses hurt badly, but if you lose 40-49 states you set things back even farther. The Centrists you and your #NoMiddleGround crowd spit on every twelve seconds may be sellouts and full on cronies but at least they come out and vote. That is Rover's point. Until the Far Left proves they will be a force on Election Day how can they be trusted? Right now if I was a Dem strategist I wouldnt count on them if anyone but Bernie wins the nom.
                  The "far left" backed Obama until it became clear that he actually didn't want to do any of the progressive things that he campaigned on. The ones that are openly hostile toward the left probably won't get their vote, but no **** lol.
                  Last edited by trixR4kids; 01-13-2020, 02:07 PM.

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                  • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                    We're arguing about losses that happened 40 years ago. That's the equivalent of people saying "Reagan can't win, look what happened to Hoover."

                    Things change. Just like people became wary of liberalism in the late '70s after a long, long run they have become sick and tired of devil take the hindmost conservatism. Systems that are in place long enough wear out their welcome and I can't think of anything less welcome than the Republican Party.

                    We are the ones betraying us, not the voters. Bernie would lose the pundits and lose the Beltway experts and lose the media and lose the DNC money people and lose the Wise Old Heads and win the election.
                    Last edited by Kepler; 01-13-2020, 02:04 PM.
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                    • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      No, if the politics of the state had changed over that time. By that logic, conservatives will be winning a tough race if they flip Joe Manchin's seat once he retires, since he succeeded Robert Byrd who held that seat for ages. That makes no sense, even by your standards...
                      They will, his challenger got more votes that the Republican despite having like 6 figures to spend on her campaign and the DCCC aggressively backing Manchin and bringing candidates from Washington to speak on his behalf.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                        Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                        They will, his challenger got more votes that the Republican despite having like 6 figures to spend on her campaign and the DCCC aggressively backing Manchin and bringing candidates from Washington to speak on his behalf.
                        What are you talking about? Manchin's challenger got 48.5K votes in the primary vs Manchin. Morrisey, the Gooper nominee in the general received 271K votes in the general election.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_U...nia#Candidates
                        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                        Comment


                        • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                          Flipping a Senate seat is always a big deal. Incumbency doesn't just bestow perks it also denies them. The reason you throw everything including the kitchen sink at a vacancy is it's probably the last time you'll get a shot at the seat for a generation.
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                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            We're arguing about losses that happened 40 years ago. That's the equivalent of people saying "Reagan can't win, look what happened to Hoover."

                            Things change. Just like people became wary of liberalism in the late '70s after a long, long run they have become sick and tired of devil take the hindmost conservatism. Systems that are in place long enough wear out their welcome and I can't think of anything less welcome than the Republican Party.

                            We are the ones betraying us, not the voters. Bernie would lose the pundits and lose the Beltway experts and lose the media and lose the DNC money people and lose the Wise Old Heads and win the election.
                            For a guy who enjoys referencing the past more than most this is kind of a bizarre take...

                            And until the next election all we can do is look at the past. That is kind of how you get better.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

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                            • Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                              Originally posted by Rover View Post
                              What are you talking about? Manchin's challenger got 48.5K votes in the primary vs Manchin. Morrisey, the Gooper nominee in the general received 271K votes in the general election.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_U...nia#Candidates
                              Sorry I should've stipulated, PGS got more votes challenging Manchin than any of the republicans did in their respective primary.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                                Uh no, they compromised the principles of the party that supposedly represents the working class and still lost achieving the exact same outcome against embarrassingly stupid candidates.
                                Yeah principled candidates getting smoked looks better. Mondale isn't seen as a joke and Carter as one of the weakest Presidents of the modern era. (whether fair or not)

                                I will give you this...your takes are interesting due to them being different.
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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