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  • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

    Originally posted by Darius View Post
    I'd go with infantile (coaches, staff), occasionally amusing (NICC or whatever), completely uncalled for and inappropriate (players).
    At least I got an "occasionally amusing" out of you here. "Infantile" is a little harsh, but hey - to each their own. The adults in the room should be able to handle the commentary (and sometimes criticism) implicit in their tags. I think I try to stop short of players most of the time, but I'm sure I've gone over that line a few times in the past. I did admittedly chuckle at VSS though. I'm not sure why you'd deem it "inappropriate" but again, you're entitled to your opinion and viewpoint, Mr. Scarano.

    Originally posted by Darius View Post
    Compared to the UMA weekend, the Whitt atmosphere is blah. The UConn weekend still disappoints. We squandered our games in hand advantage. It (((seemed))) we had turned a corner. UVM is absofreakinglutely wretched. The next three game weekends (((should))) be fun? Of course I am rooting for the 'cats as hard as ever, but have started watching UML in the standings. Plan B for extending the local in person NCAA Division One hockey viewing season.
    Have to agree 100% with you, the UConn weekend was a proverbial kick in the shorts. Even a split, and look where UNH would be right now. But that's over and done with, and all we can do now is look ahead and hope the 'Cats build on things against BU, who will be coming off playing Northeastern in the Beanpot Finals, and should be ripe for a letdown. Ditto NU next weekend, against whomever.

    Originally posted by Darius View Post
    Maybe if they played all out all the time teammates would be unable to keep up, be less involved and less effective? Maybe if they played all out all the time they'd be unable to log the minutes that apparently the coaches deem them worthy of?
    Maybe the elite players at this level address the demands for ice time with heavy conditioning work? They're only playing two games per week … next year or in the future, in the pros, they'll be playing 3, sometimes 4 games per week, maybe with the same ice time demands, plus against (and with) what will likely be a higher overall talent level at the next level(s)??



    I would hope it's not asked of the elite players at this level to "slow down" so your slower and/or less-talented teammates can keep up ... which of course would help those pesky slower and/or less talented opponents better keep up and hold their own against what would be a decided competitive advantage?!?



    Just saying … this last bit may not have been your best argument ever, Darius.
    Last edited by Chuck Murray; 02-09-2020, 01:03 PM.
    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
    Montreal Expos Forever ...

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    • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

      Odds to win 2020 Frozen Four published in today’s NY Post.
      UNH 100/1

      Favorites
      N. Dakota 9/2
      BC 11/2
      Cornell 15/2
      Minn. St. 15/2

      Others
      UMass and PC 18/1
      Northeastern 25/1
      Maine and UML 50/1
      BU 100/1

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      • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

        Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
        IIRC Wyse was originally a BU commit. Don't recall Maass being a commit elsewhere, but I could well be wrong on that? While both are very good players at this level … with all due respect to both of them, they're not really even all that close to Gildon's talent and impact. And that's coming from me, the self-anointed champion of four year guys who bring it every night.
        Wyse was a Dartmouth commit who if I recall correctly had an academic admissions issue that led to us being able to nab him. Maass was uncommitted and brought in after his senior high school season (after finishing out that season in juniors) which was probably earlier than anyone else talking to him was willing to offer. We had the bad fortunes of being very short on our defensive side at the time that led to the good furtunes of having space when Gildon, Wyse, Maass, Mackinnon, and now Reid were suddenly available. It's not a good primary strategy to wait for someone else to leave you talents of that level but it was a great way to jump start what has been a climb out of the basement.

        I hear a lot of concern over the playoffs this year and I get it. What we are seeing this year is a very strange set of standings and the unfortunate thing is one team that has had a very good season is going to be left out. I honestly hope it is not UNH but if it is I will in no way consider it a wasted season or a bad one. Whatever happens I would hope that we can build on it and continue the progress that has occurred in the 2 years under MS7. From what we have seen this year this team can go into Mullins and win, they can go into Schneider and win, so just get into the playoffs and who knows what can happen. Again, if they are the odd man out it will be a tough break but I'll take the results of this season as a net positive.

        I'm going to keep out of the "thumbs up, thumbs down" on Gildon. All I am going to say is (Disclaimer: no inside information) watching him develop different parts of his game this season and now seeing him being paired with different (FR/SO) players I think there is a chance that this is not his last season at UNH.

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        • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

          Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
          Wyse was a Dartmouth commit who if I recall correctly had an academic admissions issue that led to us being able to nab him. Maass was uncommitted and brought in after his senior high school season (after finishing out that season in juniors) which was probably earlier than anyone else talking to him was willing to offer. We had the bad fortunes of being very short on our defensive side at the time that led to the good furtunes of having space when Gildon, Wyse, Maass, Mackinnon, and now Reid were suddenly available. It's not a good primary strategy to wait for someone else to leave you talents of that level but it was a great way to jump start what has been a climb out of the basement.

          I hear a lot of concern over the playoffs this year and I get it. What we are seeing this year is a very strange set of standings and the unfortunate thing is one team that has had a very good season is going to be left out. I honestly hope it is not UNH but if it is I will in no way consider it a wasted season or a bad one. Whatever happens I would hope that we can build on it and continue the progress that has occurred in the 2 years under MS7. From what we have seen this year this team can go into Mullins and win, they can go into Schneider and win, so just get into the playoffs and who knows what can happen. Again, if they are the odd man out it will be a tough break but I'll take the results of this season as a net positive.

          I'm going to keep out of the "thumbs up, thumbs down" on Gildon. All I am going to say is (Disclaimer: no inside information) watching him develop different parts of his game this season and now seeing him being paired with different (FR/SO) players I think there is a chance that this is not his last season at UNH.
          Thanks for that update and positive spin on the possibility of being left out of the post season. Very good points about how far we've come. And oh yea, that's right about Benton Maass. I'm excited for Reid to get here as well. You are right; the 'Cats have shown they can win big games and that will hopefully carry over as the culture is being formed under MS7 and co. Enjoy the Beanpot games...(here's also hoping your prediction that MG stays for his Senior year!!!) go 'Cats!!
          Here we go 'Cats!!

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          • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
            At least I got an "occasionally amusing" out of you here. "Infantile" is a little harsh, but hey - to each their own. The adults in the room should be able to handle the commentary (and sometimes criticism) implicit in their tags. I think I try to stop short of players most of the time, but I'm sure I've gone over that line a few times in the past. I did admittedly chuckle at VSS though. I'm not sure why you'd deem it "inappropriate" but again, you're entitled to your opinion and viewpoint, Mr. Scarano.
            Yeah, I should have gone with childish. Inappropriate because they are student athletes, basically kids. Run it through the "if this were my child" filter.

            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
            Maybe the elite players at this level address the demands for ice time with heavy conditioning work? They're only playing two games per week … next year or in the future, in the pros, they'll be playing 3, sometimes 4 games per week, maybe with the same ice time demands, plus against (and with) what will likely be a higher overall talent level at the next level(s)??





            Just saying … this last bit may not have been your best argument ever, Darius.
            Wasn't arguing, just thinking. Pros don't have to worry about class, limited practice time.

            Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
            I would hope it's not asked of the elite players at this level to "slow down" so your slower and/or less-talented teammates can keep up ... which of course would help those pesky slower and/or less talented opponents better keep up and hold their own against what would be a decided competitive advantage?!?
            Not suggesting "asked", but wondering if a reality.
            Last edited by Darius; 02-09-2020, 01:46 PM.
            I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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            • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

              A little shocking: The Bruins lose to the Red Wings. Even the pros do not always win when they should!

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              • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                More thoughts on Gildon and not from a phone keyboard...

                When I look at a elite D-man I think they need to have at least solid skills in each end with somethings "elite" to go with it, strong situational awareness and the toughness to deal with the extra attention they are going to get. That would be elite at any level and compared to others at that same level.

                For my view on Gildon:

                Offensively: he has excellent to elite skills at the college level. At times passing could be more accurate (you see it on PP when passing for one timers) and shot accuracy would make him even more dangerous. Decision making is something that needs to develop, knowing when to make the safe play vs take the chance. This is also why his turnovers and gafs are glaringly obvious and easy to point out.

                Defense: this is the end of the ice where there is more work to be done. Most glaringly in the last two weeks is a surprisingly poor ability to play a 2 on 1, Uconn scored easily and UVM would have as well if they weren't UVM. In both cases Gildon was in no mans land ultimately doing nothing to prevent the pass or playing either player. I never like to say a player isn't putting in "effort" as only they know, so it is awareness identifying the play and what to do.

                On the physical end it is funny I don't look at Gildon's size and expect him to be more physical. Hockey is not the contact sport it was once. I do think he needs to be able to take a hit and not have such a drop of in decision making. If physically he was "Torey Krug" who has developed the ability to take a hit and not get affected I would be happy.

                BIG MAYBE - we see what UNH looks like without Gildon during physical games as his play seems to have a big drop off.
                "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

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                • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                  I am not a fan of calling out players by name for their mistakes. I feel it is inappropriate. I could call out the same two defensemen that were on the ice for the first two goals against UConn in the Friday night game, but I will not. I could call out the forwards that did not execute their defensive responsibilities, but I will not. I do not think it is in the best interest of any college program!

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                  • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                    Originally posted by Ray Dorn View Post
                    A little shocking: The Bruins lose to the Red Wings. Even the pros do not always win when they should!
                    Ugh...but don't tell Chuck...
                    Here we go 'Cats!!

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                    • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                      Now for general thoughts on Gildon:

                      Why are quarterbacks in football involved in so many turnovers? Because they handle the football more than all other players on a football team. I believe we would all be shocked how many times Gildon handles the puck in a game. If somebody, maybe Dan, had the time to track how many puck touches all six defensemen had in the Vermont game last night I would not be surprised if Gildon had almost as many as the other five defensemen combined.

                      There are different styles of defensemen in the game of hockey. The best example I can thing of right now is Scott Niedermayer and Scott Stevens of the New Jersey Devils of the past. Niedermayer was more of a finesse, puck possession defenseman and Stevens was more of a physical, hard hitting defenseman. Both very good defensemen, but very different in their style of play. Sorta like Gildon and Wyse. Do you think their coaches with the Devils told Niedermayer that he needed to be a hard hitting defenseman like Stevens? I highly doubt it. And I doubt the UNH coaches want Gildon to check like Wyse. Some people believe all defensemen should play like Scott Stevens, while other people have a higher hockey intelligence and realize that Orr, Coffey, Niedermayer were very good defensemen in their way of playing the game.

                      If Tom Brady were to have challenged every linebacker by lowering his shoulder and trying to run them over for an extra yard or two he would have spent have of his career injured and not playing. His career would have been done years ago.
                      Last edited by Ray Dorn; 02-09-2020, 02:54 PM.

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                      • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                        Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
                        Wyse was a Dartmouth commit who if I recall correctly had an academic admissions issue that led to us being able to nab him. Maass was uncommitted and brought in after his senior high school season (after finishing out that season in juniors) which was probably earlier than anyone else talking to him was willing to offer. We had the bad fortunes of being very short on our defensive side at the time that led to the good furtunes of having space when Gildon, Wyse, Maass, Mackinnon, and now Reid were suddenly available. It's not a good primary strategy to wait for someone else to leave you talents of that level but it was a great way to jump start what has been a climb out of the basement.

                        I hear a lot of concern over the playoffs this year and I get it. What we are seeing this year is a very strange set of standings and the unfortunate thing is one team that has had a very good season is going to be left out. I honestly hope it is not UNH but if it is I will in no way consider it a wasted season or a bad one. Whatever happens I would hope that we can build on it and continue the progress that has occurred in the 2 years under MS7. From what we have seen this year this team can go into Mullins and win, they can go into Schneider and win, so just get into the playoffs and who knows what can happen. Again, if they are the odd man out it will be a tough break but I'll take the results of this season as a net positive.

                        I'm going to keep out of the "thumbs up, thumbs down" on Gildon. All I am going to say is (Disclaimer: no inside information) watching him develop different parts of his game this season and now seeing him being paired with different (FR/SO) players I think there is a chance that this is not his last season at UNH.

                        Speaking of Maass and trending in the right direction, points and +/-

                        Freshman: 17 -9
                        Sophomore: 6 -10
                        Junior: 10 +11

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                        • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                          People on this thread have brought up the +/- statistic many times in the past to measure the performance of the defensemen. The +/- is one of the most flawed statistics.

                          How does the +/- work when the goalie is pulled late in the game by the team that is down by one or two goals?

                          How does the +/- work when their is a delayed penalty called so the team going on the power play pulls the goalie for an extra attacker for a 6 on 5 situation and they score a goal?

                          How does the +/- work when a team gets scored against a couple of seconds after their penalty expires?

                          There are times where a player earns an assist on a goal, but is not credited with a +. The player makes a good pass that leads to a goal being scored, but goes to the players bench for a line change before the goal is actually scored.

                          Typically, when a minus situation occurs (goal against) there are six players on the ice. The goal against could be one or two players fault, but five of them get a minus on the play.
                          Last edited by Ray Dorn; 02-09-2020, 03:20 PM.

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                          • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                            Wow, just catching up on the excellent thoughtful discussion here while watching the B's flame out to the Dead Wings for the fifth consecutive time, and now C's in a battle at OKC this afternoon. I should be outside skiing, but I am inside working as I watch. During the first half of the C's game, there was a shout out to Libby's Bar and Grill in Durham, N.H., but I missed the context. :-)

                            Chuck, because you wrote "45 years," I assumed that you were placing Gildon as the best blueliner at UNH since Langway, even if completely different styies of play.

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                            • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                              Offensive defenseman are highly sought after at the next level. Remember, mistakes defensemen make are much more obvious than mistakes forwards make. Bad turnovers in the D-zone can very often lead to grade A scoring chances. Defensemen are often maligned for these miscues by what I call the casual observer.
                              UNH Hockey: You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

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                              • Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward

                                Originally posted by e.cat View Post
                                Offensive defenseman are highly sought after at the next level. Remember, mistakes defensemen make are much more obvious than mistakes forwards make. Bad turnovers in the D-zone can very often lead to grade A scoring chances. Defensemen are often maligned for these miscues by what I call the casual observer.
                                Excellent point. Whenever I hear complaining from fans sitting around me about something that happens out there, it's usually directed to a dman...never thought about it that way but your observations are right on sir!!
                                Here we go 'Cats!!

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