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  • Re: Maine

    Originally posted by DoubleA View Post
    Fish, I totally disagree. I think Wally is right on the $$. The Undertaker’s time at Maine was o-v-a-h OVAH. He would have performed the same or worse than Red. Recruiting was toast. Look at the recruits they got in 2013-14-15. Those were all The Undertaker’s. He had last control and the financial status of the program was in shambles...pitiful. Believe it.
    I wanted him gone, too, back in The Day.

    But there's no doubt whatsoever that Tim brought-in more talent. Red hasn't recruited jack-sh*t, aside from Swayman.

    Tim helped dig the grave, but Red is the one who has truly buried this program.
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 01-20-2020, 08:27 PM.

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    • Re: Maine

      Originally posted by BlackI View Post
      Pathetic
      Once you polish-off your nightly 30-pack, have someone with a BAC under 0.30 read the numbers to you.

      Christ almighty.
      Last edited by Fishman'81; 01-20-2020, 08:35 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: Maine

        Originally posted by NorthMike View Post
        Doesn't matter much to me, they won't get to the Garden even they make 8th.
        I know your right, but want a Swayman led upset over the #1 0r #2 seed to finish off his career at Maine. (Bruins will sign him right after Maine season ends)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
          Once you polish-off your nightly 30-pack, have someone with a BAC under 0.30 read the numbers to you.

          Christ almighty.
          It didn’t take any alcohol to label your post of “I will take Whitehead back” as pathetic. I guess you think it went over well and got a great reception.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by walrus View Post
            I dont believe Tim would have done any better than Red. Once Grant left it was over.

            Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
            From what I heard Grant was pushed out by Whitehead. It isn’t like Grant stopped with hockey. He helped Montgomery as an assistant in Dubuque where Dubuque won a championship. Here is a good read on Standbrook...

            https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2017/04/10_Monty-and-the-Gray-Ghost.php

            I find it hard to believe anyone would chose to bring back a coach that was fired due to leading a storied program into the dirt, and along the way booting a legend that is now a UMaine hall of fame member.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlackI View Post
              From what I heard Grant was pushed out by Whitehead. It isn’t like Grant stopped with hockey. He helped Montgomery as an assistant in Dubuque where Dubuque won a championship. Here is a good read on Standbrook...

              https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2017/04/10_Monty-and-the-Gray-Ghost.php

              I find it hard to believe anyone would chose to bring back a coach that was fired due to leading a storied program into the dirt, and along the way booting a legend that is now a UMaine hall of fame member.
              Whitehead pushed out Standbrook? Why the hell would he do that? It isn't a coincidence that Maine's rise to the top began when he showed up, and their decline and decay started when he left. Even Kariya credits Grant as why he came to Maine.

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              • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                Bish spent half his Maine career behind his own net d*cking around with the puck.

                I didn't expect him to reach the level he has, either, but I'm a big fan of his now.
                Same. In retrospect I think coming right after Howard left an unfair eye test Bish could never have passed. That and when he got to Maine he was 19, a totally unfinished product without a million years of jr seasoning. He was ridiculous in the 2 regional games in 07, unflappable and outplayed Jon Quick

                Maine Hockey: I want to believe
                43-21-4 (.662) in games I attended over 4 years as a student
                104-47-14 (.669) in that time
                3x FROZEN FOUR

                11-20-2 in games I've attended since. (2-2-1 under Red)

                Comment


                • Re: Maine

                  Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                  Whitehead pushed out Standbrook? Why the hell would he do that? It isn't a coincidence that Maine's rise to the top began when he showed up, and their decline and decay started when he left. Even Kariya credits Grant as why he came to Maine.
                  Tim never pushed Grant out. That's the position of people who did not like Tim and assume that he was responsible. If Grant had wanted to continue his hockey career he would have coached or recruited for another team. Tim did have difficulty in recruiting enough quality players. He had good goal tenders and a good first line. He also developed players (Abbott and Flynn) and Gendron's best team were players he inherited from Tim in his first year. Tim was placed in a difficult position by following a legend. Walsh struggled his first few years and he never really had success until he hired Grant away from Wisconsin. The answer as to how Tim would have done had he stayed is pure conjecture because Tim will never return to Orono. In fact, I suspect he is pleased that he is no longer there.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Maine

                    Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                    "Be careful what you wish for"...

                    I was among the last to call for Tim's head, but I eventually did. Turns-out I was wrong.

                    Now we have a completely inept regime, and I'd be happy to have TW back, yesterday. I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have performed much better than Dead Red over the past 6-7 years, or whatever it is. (Feels like forever.)
                    Originally posted by walrus View Post
                    I dont believe Tim would have done any better than Red. Once Grant left it was over.
                    Originally posted by Ma#1ne Hky View Post
                    Right, TW time at Maine was over...just like Gendron's time should be over.
                    Originally posted by DoubleA View Post
                    Fish, I totally disagree. I think Wally is right on the $$. The Undertaker’s time at Maine was o-v-a-h OVAH. He would have performed the same or worse than Red. Recruiting was toast. Look at the recruits they got in 2013-14-15. Those were all The Undertaker’s. He had last control and the financial status of the program was in shambles...pitiful. Believe it.
                    Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                    I wanted him gone, too, back in The Day.

                    But there's no doubt whatsoever that Tim brought-in more talent. Red hasn't recruited jack-sh*t, aside from Swayman.

                    Tim helped dig the grave, but Red is the one who has truly buried this program.
                    Originally posted by BlackI View Post
                    From what I heard Grant was pushed out by Whitehead. It isn’t like Grant stopped with hockey. He helped Montgomery as an assistant in Dubuque where Dubuque won a championship. Here is a good read on Standbrook...

                    https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...Gray-Ghost.php

                    I find it hard to believe anyone would chose to bring back a coach that was fired due to leading a storied program into the dirt, and along the way booting a legend that is now a UMaine hall of fame member.
                    Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                    Whitehead pushed out Standbrook? Why the hell would he do that? It isn't a coincidence that Maine's rise to the top began when he showed up, and their decline and decay started when he left. Even Kariya credits Grant as why he came to Maine.
                    To different issues here, Coach Whitehead's record vs Coach Gendron's record and Coach Standbrook's time at Maine. First, I created a graph with Coach Whitehead's and Coach Gendron's season-by-season winning percentages (the black line is Coach Whitehead's last season). There was a drop off after the 2006-07 season, but Coach Whitehead had turned it around until a very poor 2012-13 season.



                    As for Coach Standbrook, I have advocated that the assistant coaches are a major reason for a program's success for some time and even showed that Coach Parker's most successful seasons were when he had top assistants. However, I will point out that 2 of Coach Whitehead's three losing seasons came in 2007-08 and 2008-09, Coach Standbrook's last season at Maine and the first season after he left. Coach Whitehead then had three winning seasons, each better than the previous one, until his poor last season.

                    In regards to the financials, in 2009-10 Maine was 21st in expenses for men's hockey, while in 2012-13 Maine had dropped to 26th in expenses, despite an increase of about $300 thousand (about 15%). So part of the problem was that Maine was not keeping pace with the increased spending of other programs.

                    Sean
                    Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                    Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                    BU Hockey Games
                    BU Hockey highlights and extras
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                    I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                    Comment


                    • Re: Maine

                      Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                      To different issues here, Coach Whitehead's record vs Coach Gendron's record and Coach Standbrook's time at Maine. First, I created a graph with Coach Whitehead's and Coach Gendron's season-by-season winning percentages (the black line is Coach Whitehead's last season). There was a drop off after the 2006-07 season, but Coach Whitehead had turned it around until a very poor 2012-13 season.



                      As for Coach Standbrook, I have advocated that the assistant coaches are a major reason for a program's success for some time and even showed that Coach Parker's most successful seasons were when he had top assistants. However, I will point out that 2 of Coach Whitehead's three losing seasons came in 2007-08 and 2008-09, Coach Standbrook's last season at Maine and the first season after he left. Coach Whitehead then had three winning seasons, each better than the previous one, until his poor last season.

                      In regards to the financials, in 2009-10 Maine was 21st in expenses for men's hockey, while in 2012-13 Maine had dropped to 26th in expenses, despite an increase of about $300 thousand (about 15%). So part of the problem was that Maine was not keeping pace with the increased spending of other programs.

                      Sean
                      Thank You Sean, I agree with you in regard to assist coaches. Reds assistants are probably OK but surely not top notch. I promote a change in assistants if Red for some reason hangs on. Their names never come up as being head coach prospects or "good"recruiters, I dont know maybe they aren't interested in becoming head coaches.

                      Based on your graph, Grants departure could be related to the downturn leading to the 07-09 period. Just conjecture, possible Grant clearly saw the program declining and didnt see where his role could help to change that. Possible his role was diminished or he saw the culture was just wrong.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Maine

                        Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                        "Be careful what you wish for"...

                        I was among the last to call for Tim's head, but I eventually did. Turns-out I was wrong.

                        Now we have a completely inept regime, and I'd be happy to have TW back, yesterday. I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have performed much better than Dead Red over the past 6-7 years, or whatever it is. (Feels like forever.)
                        Bringing TW back would be accepting - celebrating, even - mediocrity. That is something I don't embrace.

                        Originally posted by walrus View Post
                        I don't believe Tim would have done any better than Red. Once Grant left it was over.
                        Listen to Wally. He's one of the brightest hockey fans around.
                        bigmrg74: "You can't drink the day away if you don't start early!"
                        SledDog: "UncleRay seems to be the most sensible one here tonight."
                        All great men are dead and I'm not feeling well.
                        A Margarita! in every hand and another Margarita! in the other hand!

                        And stay off the lawn!

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                        • Re: Maine

                          Originally posted by Runsub5 View Post
                          ...Walsh struggled his first few years and he never really had success until he hired Grant away from Wisconsin.
                          As much as I think Coach Standbrook was instrumental in Maine's success, Coach Walsh had already become successful at Maine before he arrived. After two sub-0.300 seasons Coach Walsh had 0.595 and 0.795 seasons before Coach Standbrook arrived in 1988:
                          1984-85 - 12-29-1 0.298
                          1985-86 - 11-28-1 0.288
                          1986-87 - 24-16-2 0.595
                          1987-88 - 34-8-2 0.795

                          By the way, I recall that 1986-87 season well. BU's soon to be all-time leading scorer John Cullen was captain and BU had been picked as the pre-season #1 team in the country. The Terriers opened the season hosting Maine for 2 games which were expected to be wins, but ended up as 3-2 and 7-5 losses. Those 2 losses set the tone for an underwhelming season for BU and were also the start of an 11-game losing streak to Maine.

                          Sean
                          Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                          Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                          BU Hockey Games
                          BU Hockey highlights and extras
                          NCAA Hockey Financials
                          Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                          I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                          Comment


                          • Re: Maine

                            Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                            To different issues here, Coach Whitehead's record vs Coach Gendron's record and Coach Standbrook's time at Maine. First, I created a graph with Coach Whitehead's and Coach Gendron's season-by-season winning percentages (the black line is Coach Whitehead's last season). There was a drop off after the 2006-07 season, but Coach Whitehead had turned it around until a very poor 2012-13 season.



                            As for Coach Standbrook, I have advocated that the assistant coaches are a major reason for a program's success for some time and even showed that Coach Parker's most successful seasons were when he had top assistants. However, I will point out that 2 of Coach Whitehead's three losing seasons came in 2007-08 and 2008-09, Coach Standbrook's last season at Maine and the first season after he left. Coach Whitehead then had three winning seasons, each better than the previous one, until his poor last season.

                            In regards to the financials, in 2009-10 Maine was 21st in expenses for men's hockey, while in 2012-13 Maine had dropped to 26th in expenses, despite an increase of about $300 thousand (about 15%). So part of the problem was that Maine was not keeping pace with the increased spending of other programs.

                            Sean
                            Nicely done Sean.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Maine

                              Originally posted by UncleRay View Post
                              Bringing TW back would be accepting - celebrating, even - mediocrity.
                              I don't consider a 250-171-54 0.583 record over 12 season as mediocre.

                              Sean
                              Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                              Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                              BU Hockey Games
                              BU Hockey highlights and extras
                              NCAA Hockey Financials
                              Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                              I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                              Comment


                              • Re: Maine

                                Originally posted by NorthMike View Post
                                Thank You Sean, I agree with you in regard to assist coaches. Reds assistants are probably OK but surely not top notch. I promote a change in assistants if Red for some reason hangs on. Their names never come up as being head coach prospects or "good"recruiters, I dont know maybe they aren't interested in becoming head coaches.

                                Based on your graph, Grants departure could be related to the downturn leading to the 07-09 period. Just conjecture, possible Grant clearly saw the program declining and didnt see where his role could help to change that. Possible his role was diminished or he saw the culture was just wrong.
                                Originally posted by Runsub5 View Post
                                Nicely done Sean.
                                Thanks.

                                Coach Standbrook is an excellent example of an assistant not interested in becoming a head coach, although he already had been one, so he is likely a special case as well. But I agree that most top assistants are at least mentioned as potential head coaches when opening come up. I also agree that changing assistant coaches can make a difference, even if it is a hard choice to make.

                                Sean
                                Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                                Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                                BU Hockey Games
                                BU Hockey highlights and extras
                                NCAA Hockey Financials
                                Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                                I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                                Comment

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