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Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

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  • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

    Originally posted by aparch View Post
    Of course the replies are heavily MAGA influenced...


    respect for that

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    • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

      Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
      Can coal still work in a carbon-managed future?

      Minnkota Power Cooperative (Grand Forks, ND) believes so and is is putting serious dollars into it.

      https://www.grandforksherald.com/opi...Project-Tundra



      Minnkota should know. Back on Jan 29-31, 2019, their faceplate 340 MW wind stations went to zero. It was -30F, and the chargers don't turn (safety brake) below -22F. The only reason they (and the MISO grid in the northern plains) didn't suffer rolling brown-outs was load management (certain customers allow themselves to be switched off at peak times in exchange for rate breaks) or as McLennan states "coal, natural gas and nuclear."
      Wait, I thought low temps help the conductors for solar.
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      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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      • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
        Wait, I thought low temps help the conductors for solar.
        Crazy as this sounds, those days in ND were cloudy and windless. It happens.
        The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

        North Dakota Hockey:

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        • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

          Couldn't we power the whole country just on wind power from the prairies? I've driven through KS. It's insane.
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          • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Couldn't we power the whole country just on wind power from the prairies? I've driven through KS. It's insane.
            The grid is true "real time".
            What's coming off of a generator right now is being consumed right now.
            There is no "parking lot" for that megawatt off the generator to wait around until it's needed during evening peak.
            And if it's not there at evening peak people don't have lights or make dinner.

            If the wind isn't winding and the sun isn't sunning there's no source for right now real time.

            Worse? Say there's a 400 MW solar farm powering your town right now, and a cloud comes over, then clears. How does the grid add and shed that much energy almost instantly? And how does your dishwasher stay running if there's no mitigation (storage) during the cloud time?

            That's why storage is so important.
            Capture the windy, sunny days and use them on the calm, cloudy days, and to flatten out peak and valleys, and to always be there (base line).

            Right now we cover base line load (the bottoms of the valleys) with fossil and nuclear.


            PS - Kansas is insane for far more reasons than just wind.
            Last edited by The Sicatoka; 01-27-2020, 03:42 PM.
            The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

            North Dakota Hockey:

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            • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

              Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
              The grid is true "real time".
              What's coming off of a generator right now is being consumed right now.
              There is no "parking lot" for that megawatt off the generator to wait around until it's needed during evening peak.
              And if it's not there at evening peak people don't have lights or make dinner.

              If the wind isn't winding and the sun isn't sunning there's no source for right now real time.

              Worse? Say there's a 400 MW solar farm powering your town right now, and a cloud comes over, then clears. How does the grid add and shed that much energy almost instantly? And how does your dishwasher stay running if there's no mitigation (storage) during the cloud time?

              That's why storage is so important.
              Capture the windy, sunny days and use them on the calm, cloudy days, and to flatten out peak and valleys, and to always be there (base line).

              Right now we cover base line load (the bottoms of the valleys) with fossil and nuclear.


              PS - Kansas is insane for far more reasons than just wind.
              This will sound like a really stupid question, so I'm sorry. Remember: playwright.

              What if we globalized the grid? At any given time the amount of the Earth exposed to sunlight is constant. It would also normalize winter and summer. And perhaps other things would even out more -- I dunno, wet and dry season? Maybe wind and storms? Intensity of energy received is fractionally greater at perihelion but our ellipse is nearly a circle so not much.
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              • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                What if we globalized the grid?
                Infrastructure.

                The siting crew will be by shortly to stake out that 500 kV transmission line through your back yard so Miami can power Boston in winter.

                OK, OK, less snarky. The US grid is actually sub-grids like MISO and SPP and ERCOT and such. There is some time (seconds) in getting energy from source to need but there is a base level you have to hold to "keep the lights on". We're interconnected well save for day/night (solar).
                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

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                • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                  (Unverified factoid recently told)

                  The Sun dumps the same energy onto Earth in just two minutes that humanity uses in 24 hours.


                  Storage.
                  The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                  North Dakota Hockey:

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                  • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                    Will we always need wires?
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                    • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Will we always need wires?
                      If you overcome that make sure my name is on the patent next to yours.
                      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                      North Dakota Hockey:

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                      • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                        If you overcome that make sure my name is on the patent next to yours.
                        I know, it's a holy grail.

                        Seems to me we have two critical problems: climate change, which is a surfeit of energy from the sun, and energy consumption, which is based on extraction from the earth, and which drives most of our pollution not to mention wars.

                        So, let me keep being stupid. Oil is good because it's a very dense source of energy which is extremely portable. Oil is basically ideal energy storage -- you can transmit it easily through pipes and on board huge ships and it stays fairly non-volatile until you want it. The Earth did us a huge solid and stored up a gazillion cubic meters of it for us to come get.

                        So... can we just do that, but on purpose and in real time? Can we "make" oil? How do you make it, anyway? I assume making oil is actually very energy inefficient. The energy inputs are mechanical energies of gigantic pressures applied over long intervals of time. However, the Earth did this for us, so we get to free ride on the back end, and that's why oil is energy "cheap" -- we aren't paying for the externalities.

                        Are there any large forces we could use to do the same thing? Could we, I dunno, throw our bio-waste into Jupiter's gravity well and get oil out on the back end? Or make a black hole to do it? Or create some synthetic substance with even better properties that doesn't, you know, poison the oceans and which is just as portable?
                        Last edited by Kepler; 01-27-2020, 04:29 PM.
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                        • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Can we "make" oil? How do you make it, anyway? I assume making oil is actually very energy inefficient.
                          Kinda-sorta-almost-maybe? OK, we make natural gas from coal, and it's a money loser.

                          Why? There's natural gas flying out of every oily hole in western North Dakota's Bakken .... wait a minute, that didn't come out right ...
                          The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                          North Dakota Hockey:

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                          • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                            Crazy as this sounds, those days in ND were cloudy and windless. It happens.
                            Soooooo, it wasn't really the cold, then. It was clouds.

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                            • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                              Originally posted by unofan View Post
                              Soooooo, it wasn't really the cold, then. It was clouds.
                              No.
                              It was -30F that shut down wind (safety lockout/shutdown at -22F).
                              The amount of solar in Minnkota's repertoire is a rounding error compared to 340 MW (face plate) of wind. <-- All of which was producing 0 MW.

                              Solar this far north only works at 14% (yes, fourteen percent) of face plate rated generation. A cooperative in Fargo has a 102 kW (not MW, kW) solar farm*. Here's how it's doing so far this year (YTD). The best day on that farm this year is 402 kWh. That means it got the equivalent of full sun for 4 hours. There are a lot of days (change to YTD view) where the whole farm got an effective one hour of full sun total farm output.

                              Solar, in places where daylight goes down to under 10 hours per day for long periods of the year, is not a solution. Down south, like AZ? Your mileage will vary. (It makes way more sense there.)


                              Looking back, dx brought up solar and conductors when we'd been talking wind. But yes, cold conductor are more conductive relative to hot conductors; but, if there's no energy to flow those factoids are trivia.


                              *Under perfect sun conditions for an hour, the farm would produce 102 kWh (kilowatt-hour).
                              Last edited by The Sicatoka; 01-30-2020, 03:10 PM.
                              The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                              North Dakota Hockey:

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                              • Re: Climate Change 3: Whatever you do don't call it a twatwaffle

                                Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                                No.
                                It was -30F that shut down wind (safety lockout/shutdown at -22F).
                                The amount of solar in Minnkota's repertoire is a rounding error compared to 340 MW (face plate) of wind. <-- All of which was producing 0 MW.

                                Solar this far north only works at 14% (yes, fourteen percent) of face plate rated generation. A cooperative in Fargo has a 102 kW (not MW, kW) solar farm*. Here's how it's doing so far this year (YTD). The best day on that farm this year is 402 kWh. That means it got the equivalent of full sun for 4 hours. There are a lot of days (change to YTD view) where the whole farm got an effective one hour of full sun total farm output.

                                Solar, in places where daylight goes down to under 10 hours per day for long periods of the year, is not a solution. Down south, like AZ? Your mileage will vary. (It makes way more sense there.)


                                Looking back, dx brought up solar and conductors when we'd been talking wind. But yes, cold conductor are more conductive relative to hot conductors; but, if there's no energy to flow those factoids are trivia.


                                *Under perfect sun conditions for an hour, the farm would produce 102 kWh (kilowatt-hour).
                                No, YOU brought up solar in your quote.

                                Routinely, subzero temperatures can limit the ability for wind and solar to produce energy for homes and businesses when they need it most.
                                I questioned that statement.
                                Code:
                                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                                Originally posted by SanTropez
                                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                                Originally posted by Kepler
                                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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