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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    The largest complaint about any Dem progressive program is that it will drive up the deficit. Yeah, sure, literally on its face, he’s not saying it’s the Democrats fault, but it’s a common GOP talking point that Dems just want to spend money for why we should never do anything that might help the common man.
    that's why the democrats need a realistic plan to pay for their priorities that don't increase the deficit. take that talking point away from the republicans (unfortunately then the GOP will fixate on tax increases that will be required to pay for things, even if they are only for the wealthy so you need to convince the average dumb-*** that they will be better off even if Jeff Bezos is payout out the *** and Apple can't spend billions of dollars a year on stock buybacks)

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    The country going bankrupt sure as hell wonít help the common man. The deficits donít matter crowd(and Iím not saying that is necessarily from the left) is as crazy as the supply side economics crowd.
    LOL

    We have both now. And all we get is tweets about how awesome the stock market is. Maybe deficits don't matter since corporations are now in complete control of the country.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Maybe deficits don't matter since corporations are now in complete control of the country.
    deficits don't matter for politicians that are in their 70s. They'll be long dead before it's a real problem. Like climate change.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    deficits don't matter for politicians that are in their 70s. They'll be long dead before it's a real problem. Like climate change.
    I see. Well, they were all warned back in 1989 per the climate thread. So, when they were younger they didn't give a **** either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    I see. Well, they were all warned back in 1989 per the climate thread. So, when they were younger they didn't give a **** either.
    The county had a lot less debt at that point and we could get away with it. Times have changed and that is no longer the case.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    The county had a lot less debt at that point and we could get away with it. Times have changed and that is no longer the case.
    We could get away with ignoring the obvious future problems of the country? So, we get what we have now which is HUGE ****ING PROBLEMS and no money to fix them?

    Good ****ing plan.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    I see. Well, they were all warned back in 1989 per the climate thread. So, when they were younger they didn't give a **** either.
    doesn't matter when they were warned -- they'll still be dead before it's a problem so it _never_ mattered to them.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    doesn't matter when they were warned -- they'll still be dead before it's a problem so it _never_ mattered to them.
    I see. Well, it's a problem right now for the country. We're spending a lot of money on natural disasters that are all climate change related. I mean, I suppose since I am over 50 now I'll be dead before it matters too. But, I care about my kids, and grandchildren if I ever have any.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    I see. Well, it's a problem right now for the country. We're spending a lot of money on natural disasters that are all climate change related. I mean, I suppose since I am over 50 now I'll be dead before it matters too. But, I care about my kids, and grandchildren if I ever have any.
    yes, but you and I aren't republicans, nor are we politicians afraid of acknowledging an inconvenient truth

    god forbid someone make a sacrifice like driving a wussy car that gets 45mpg vs a big *** F-150, right? If you tell the dummies climate change is fake, they'll believe it because it means they don't have to do anything, and you'll get reelected. And even if you know better, you also know you'll be dead before its a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    We could get away with ignoring the obvious future problems of the country? So, we get what we have now which is HUGE ****ING PROBLEMS and no money to fix them?

    Good ****ing plan.
    It was fíing stupid no doubt about that. I donít disagree with you at all. At this point we canít change it though and the best we can do is chart a course that will get us in a better position.

    Buttigieg tried to say we need to steer away from deficits and got criticized for it. It perfectly sums up the world we live in right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    yes, but you and I aren't republicans, nor are we politicians afraid of acknowledging an inconvenient truth

    god forbid someone make a sacrifice like driving a wussy car that gets 45mpg vs a big *** F-150
    We should triple the gas tax, but will never happen.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    It was fíing stupid no doubt about that. I donít disagree with you at all. At this point we canít change it though and the best we can do is chart a course that will get us in a better position.

    Buttigieg tried to say we need to steer away from deficits and got criticized for it. It perfectly sums up the world we live in right now.
    Too late for climate change. We're already screwed. And under current plans Miami will be completely under water. So, that will cost trillions of dollars alone. And that's only one city.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    well there is the debt, and then there is the fact that we continue to run $1T+ deficits during what is supposedly a booming economy. That is a problem.
    That problem is easily fixed if the political willpower is there to do it.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    That problem is easily fixed if the political willpower is there to do it.
    [narrator voice]: there isn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    that's why the democrats need a realistic plan to pay for their priorities that don't increase the deficit. take that talking point away from the republicans (unfortunately then the GOP will fixate on tax increases that will be required to pay for things, even if they are only for the wealthy so you need to convince the average dumb-*** that they will be better off even if Jeff Bezos is payout out the *** and Apple can't spend billions of dollars a year on stock buybacks)
    I would think everyone would want a plan to pay for any proposal. As far as I know, everyone has done it.

    But your second sentence is the main point. Either the Dems are spending all your money or taking all your money. Or taking and then spending all your money. The GOP is going to have a talking point no matter what. Leave that to them and donít use it yourself on the campaign trail.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    [narrator voice]: there isn't
    And never will be. Not the way the country is set up with minority party powers. Filibuster will kill anything meaningful. And God forbid the Republicans ever get back in charge after the Democrats take over (assuming they do).
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    I would think everyone would want a plan to pay for any proposal. As far as I know, everyone has done it.

    But your second sentence is the main point. Either the Dems are spending all your money or taking all your money. Or taking and then spending all your money. The GOP is going to have a talking point no matter what. Leave that to them and don’t use it yourself on the campaign trail.
    I think it's kind of dumb for people to criticize Pete for saying we should worry about the deficits. We know the republicans won't do anything about it (other than use it as an excuse to cut spending to screw the poor and give the rich another tax break)

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    (assuming they do).
    they will.

    I lost all hope when the GOP got back into power so quickly after the Iraq war and great recession disasters.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    How did Moody’s do leading up to the Great Recession? The debt is one of those things that isn’t a big problem until it is. What is going to kill us is the interest to service it and as we get further in debt and purchasers of the debt need a higher risk premium we will be in trouble. If the cost even goes up 100 basis points that would really hurt the budget.
    Drew's debt concern is the canary in the coal mine that the GOP is in trouble. This always surfaces when the Dems are about to take power.

    Republican strategist Jude Wanniski’s 1974 “Two Santa Clauses Theory” has been the main reason why the GOP has succeeded in producing our last two Republican presidents, Bush and Trump (despite losing the popular vote both times). It’s also why Reagan’s economy seemed to be “good.”

    Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:

    First, when Republicans control the federal government, and particularly the White House, spend money like a drunken sailor and run up the US debt as far and as fast as possible. This produces three results – it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy, it raises the debt dramatically, and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Claus.”

    Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Drew's debt concern is the canary in the coal mine that the GOP is in trouble. This always surfaces when the Dems are about to take power.
    That's it exactly. And it's still working.
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