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TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

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  • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    No, the problem with HIMYM is that they actually made us care about the mother after introducing her at the end of the penultimate season, then the series finale turned it back to Robin despite spending 7 years telling us how they won't work.
    HIMYM was a classic case of staying too long as the party. The writing had eroded to the point where it couldn't support a finale. This has happened many times (MASH, Galactica, BoJack Horseman, Buffy, OITNB, Crazy Ex-GF, Community). Most shows stay too long.The only finale I can remember that's also one of the best episodes in the show is The Good Place.

    The writing is the only thing that really matters in a show (the actors are cute but they're instruments being played). If the writers are en banc then the later years are the Peter Principle where the good ones have moved on and only the bad ones or, worse, young fans of the show, are left. If the creator is the major writer then with a long run they exhaust their ideas and/or get high on their own supply.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-26-2020, 10:28 AM.
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    • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

      Sure, but the final season of China Beach was the best season of the series' four year run. maybe it was because they knew it was the last season, but they ditched the "we are IN Vietnam and how is that affecting us?" concept and started jumping around through time to show what the impact of their time in Vietnam did to those characters, and how it affected their lives then, and after they left. It became character driven, not story driven.

      Very under-rated show. And one of my all-time favorites.
      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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      • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

        Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
        The Americans, The Wire, The Sopranos, Justified.

        I started rewatching HIMYM from S1 (I missed S1 and 2 when it intitially aired) and if memory serves for me the biggest disappointment was the utter lack of emotinal appeal to the meeting of the mother. Hoping I'm misremebering that or I get a different reaction this time around.
        After about S2, maybe S3, no one really grew as a character outside of Barney. I gave up after S4.

        Rewatching the last 2 seasons of Justified. It's still awesome and a good ending to the story.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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        • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

          Originally posted by The Rube View Post
          After about S2, maybe S3, no one really grew as a character outside of Barney. I gave up after S4.
          The normal arc of a great show:

          S1, intro and some false steps

          S2, signs of greatness

          S3, hits its stride, the best it will ever be

          The plateau at peak almost never lasts more than one or two seasons. The Jump the Shark episode of Happy Days was S5, as was Puppet Angel.

          Cheers ran 11 seasons. The plateau was S3-4. The decline that began in S5 was so quick the show was unwatchable by S6.

          MASH (11 seasons) was a bit luckier. The plateau was S3-5. The decline was gradual but by S8 it was unwatchable.
          Cornell University
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          • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

            Season 5 was when Buffy died, and seasons six and seven were not great. Ok, but Buffy had high standards that they didn't meet. Kinda redeemed itself at the end with the many slayers
            What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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            • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              The normal arc of a great show:

              S1, intro and some false steps

              S2, signs of greatness

              S3, hits its stride, the best it will ever be

              The plateau at peak almost never lasts more than one or two seasons. The Jump the Shark episode of Happy Days was S5, as was Puppet Angel.

              Cheers ran 11 seasons. The plateau was S3-4. The decline that began in S5 was so quick the show was unwatchable by S6.

              MASH (11 seasons) was a bit luckier. The plateau was S3-5. The decline was gradual but by S8 it was unwatchable.
              Cheers was a standard 80s sitcom. All the 80s sitcoms were like that. In THIS day and age, yeah, that longevity doesn't hold.

              5-6 seasons is about the max. Some stretch out the final season into 2 half-seasons, others bloat the final season to avoid stretching it out another season with mindless filler (see: Breaking Bad/Mad Men, and Sons Of Anarchy, relatively).
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                HIMYM was a classic case of staying too long as the party. The writing had eroded to the point where it couldn't support a finale. This has happened many times (MASH, Galactica, BoJack Horseman, Buffy, OITNB, Crazy Ex-GF, Community). Most shows stay too long.The only finale I can remember that's also one of the best episodes in the show is The Good Place.

                The writing is the only thing that really matters in a show (the actors are cute but they're instruments being played). If the writers are en banc then the later years are the Peter Principle where the good ones have moved on and only the bad ones or, worse, young fans of the show, are left. If the creator is the major writer then with a long run they exhaust their ideas and/or get high on their own supply.
                Another reason HIMYM suffered from going too long was because the ending was clearly predetermined and probably would've made sense after season 4 or 5. By the end of season 7 or 8 or whatever, it didn't.

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                • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

                  Originally posted by unofan View Post
                  Another reason HIMYM suffered from going too long was because the ending was clearly predetermined and probably would've made sense after season 4 or 5. By the end of season 7 or 8 or whatever, it didn't.
                  Also they clearly ran out of Marshall/Lily plots in the last few seasons and didn't even pretend to hide it.

                  Cornell '04, Stanford '06


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                  • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

                    From my recollection the decline of M*A*S*H came from in order the loss of: Henry, Trapper, Frank & Radar (I was ok with doses of Potter, BJ and Charles but they were never the same), then Alan Alda gained more and more control and the show turned into a sap fest.

                    Imagine a show today having a character named (even minor ones) Spearchucker Jones?

                    Colonel Flagg might be the greatest bit character in the history of TV.

                    The most underrated and subtle funny moment for me to this day is this:

                    The camp is taking a group photo outside. Hawkeye is on a ladder setting up the shot. He asks the entire group to take 2 steps to the left which they do. He then asks them to take 2 steps to the right which they do. He takes the photo.

                    Channel 11 used to run back-to-back episodes at 3:00 and 3:30 and my brother and I didn't miss them if we weren't at a various practice or a friend's house, and I think they also ran an episode at 10:30 after the news before the Cheers reruns took over.

                    Can't remember the last time I watchd an episode.

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                    • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

                      Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                      Colonel Flagg might be the greatest bit character in the history of TV.
                      I can't think of one better, TBH. The first ones that sprang to mind are Carlton (your doorman) from Rhoda and Mr. Carlin from The Bob Newhart Show, but those are both minor ensemble characters. Inspector Lugar from Barney Miller, who has some similarities to Flagg, was one of my favorite bit characters.

                      Cancer Man and the Lone Gunmen started out as great bit characters on X Files but became important and frequent (fan service). They resisted the temptation with Flagg, and good for them. Less is more.

                      Flagg is in just 6 of the 250 episodes of MASH. That is staggering given his effect.
                      Last edited by Kepler; 05-27-2020, 04:43 AM.
                      Cornell University
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                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                      • Re: TV: A Succession of Watchmen in The Good Place

                        Rick & Morty.

                        Saw the pilot. Not sure how my life could have proceeded without this.

                        No spoilers, please. I'm gonna take it slowwwwwwwwwwwwww.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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