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2019 - 20 Rankings

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  • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    USCHO Division I Women's Poll - February 10, 2020
    Rnk Team (Last Poll)
    1. Cornell (2)
    2. Wisconsin (1)
    3. Northeastern (3)
    4. Minnesota (4)
    5. Princeton (6)
    6. Ohio State (5)
    6. Clarkson (7)
    8. Minnesota Duluth (9)
    9. Boston University (8)
    10. Harvard (10)
    10. Quinnipiac (NR)
    Others receiving votes: Robert Morris 2

    The big news in this week's poll is that Cornell takes over as the No. 1 ranked team in the land, displacing Wisconsin following their upset loss to Minnesota State (and congrats to the Mavs on their historic win). Also of note is Quinnipiac making their way into the poll, tying Harvard at No. 10. Otherwise, just minor reshuffling from Nos. 5 to 9 with no team moving up or down by more than a point.
    Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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    • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

      Originally posted by D2D View Post

      The big news in this week's poll is that Cornell takes over as the No. 1 ranked team in the land, displacing Wisconsin following their upset loss to Minnesota State (and congrats to the Mavs on their historic win). Also of note is Quinnipiac making their way into the poll, tying Harvard at No. 10. Otherwise, just minor reshuffling from Nos. 5 to 9 with no team moving up or down by more than a point.
      One set of votes that satisfies the totals: all 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th votes go to Cornell, Wisconsin, Northeastern and Minnesota; Minnesota get zero 1st or 2nd votes (!); four voters have Wisconsin at third, last week only one even had them at second.

      Cornell - eleven 1st place votes, three 2nd place, and one third place.
      Wisconsin - four 1st, seven 2nd, and four 3rd.
      Northeastern - five for each, 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
      Minnesota - five 3rd and ten 4th.

      ----------------

      Cornell - (11 x 10) + (3 x 9) + (1 x 8) = 145
      Wisconsin - (4 x 10) + (7 x 9) + (4 x 8) = 135
      Northeastern - (0 x 10) + (5 x 9) + (5 x 8) + (5 x 7) = 120
      Minnesota - (0 x 10) + (0 x 9) + (5 x 8) + (10 x 7) = 110

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      • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

        Originally posted by D2D View Post
        USCHO Division I Women's Poll - February 10, 2020
        Rnk Team (Last Poll)
        1. Cornell (2)
        2. Wisconsin (1)
        3. Northeastern (3)
        4. Minnesota (4)
        5. Princeton (6)
        6. Ohio State (5)
        6. Clarkson (7)
        8. Minnesota Duluth (9)
        9. Boston University (8)
        10. Harvard (10)
        10. Quinnipiac (NR)
        Others receiving votes: Robert Morris 2

        The big news in this week's poll is that Cornell takes over as the No. 1 ranked team in the land, displacing Wisconsin following their upset loss to Minnesota State (and congrats to the Mavs on their historic win). Also of note is Quinnipiac making their way into the poll, tying Harvard at No. 10. Otherwise, just minor reshuffling from Nos. 5 to 9 with no team moving up or down by more than a point.
        If you were to put the ivies in the WCHA would they have such a high ranking?

        Comment


        • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

          Originally posted by agfire View Post
          If you were to put the ivies in the WCHA would they have such a high ranking?
          Probably be higher...
          At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

          Comment


          • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

            Originally posted by agfire View Post
            If you were to put the ivies in the WCHA would they have such a high ranking?
            The answer depends on who "they" is. And even then there is no sure-fire way of determining the answer. However, what we can do is determine the relative strength of each conference using the PairWise rankings:

            https://www.uscho.com/rankings/pairw...ngs/d-i-women/

            WCHA
            1. Wisconsin
            3. Minnesota
            6. Ohio State
            8. Minnesota Duluth
            14. Bemidji State
            22. Minnesota State
            28. St. Cloud State
            82/7 teams = 11.71 Average PWR Ranking

            ECAC
            2. Cornell
            5. Princeton
            7. Clarkson
            10. Harvard
            11. Quinnipiac
            13. Colgate
            18. Yale
            23. St. Lawrence
            31. Dartmouth
            34. Union
            38. Brown
            39. Rensselaer
            231/12 teams = 19.25 Average PWR Ranking

            So, using this method to compare the relative strength of each conference there is little doubt that the WCHA is the stronger league, top to bottom. Then again, there are no doubt other ways you could use to answer your question and perhaps draw a different conclusion.
            Last edited by D2D; 02-10-2020, 06:09 PM.
            Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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            • Originally posted by D2D View Post
              The answer depends on who "they" is. And even then there is no sure-fire way of determining the answer. However, what we can do is determine the relative strength of each conference using the PairWise rankings:

              https://www.uscho.com/rankings/pairw...ngs/d-i-women/

              WCHA
              1. Wisconsin
              3. Minnesota
              6. Ohio State
              8. Minnesota Duluth
              14. Bemidji State
              22. Minnesota State
              28. St. Cloud State
              82/7 teams = 11.71 Average PWR Ranking

              ECAC
              2. Cornell
              5. Princeton
              7. Clarkson
              10. Harvard
              11. Quinnipiac
              13. Colgate
              18. Yale
              23. St. Lawrence
              31. Dartmouth
              34. Union
              38. Brown
              39. Rensselaer
              231/12 teams = 19.25 Average PWR Ranking

              So, using this method to compare the relative strength of each conference there is little doubt that the WCHA is the stronger league, top to bottom. Then again, there are no doubt other ways you could use to answer your question and perhaps draw a different conclusion.
              Not sure you had to do that much research. This season, WCHA teams had 12 to 16 games against top 10 teams just within the conference (16 games if you’re BSU, Kato and SCSU). By comparison, Yale has eight games all season against current top 10 teams. Week in and week out, the WCHA is the toughest conference in the country.

              Comment


              • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                Originally posted by D2D View Post
                The answer depends on who "they" is. And even then there is no sure-fire way of determining the answer. However, what we can do is determine the relative strength of each conference using the PairWise rankings:

                https://www.uscho.com/rankings/pairw...ngs/d-i-women/

                WCHA
                1. Wisconsin
                3. Minnesota
                6. Ohio State
                8. Minnesota Duluth
                14. Bemidji State
                22. Minnesota State
                28. St. Cloud State
                82/7 teams = 11.71 Average PWR Ranking

                ECAC
                2. Cornell
                5. Princeton
                7. Clarkson
                10. Harvard
                11. Quinnipiac
                13. Colgate
                18. Yale
                23. St. Lawrence
                31. Dartmouth
                34. Union
                38. Brown
                39. Rensselaer
                231/12 teams = 19.25 Average PWR Ranking

                So, using this method to compare the relative strength of each conference there is little doubt that the WCHA is the stronger league, top to bottom. Then again, there are no doubt other ways you could use to answer your question and perhaps draw a different conclusion.
                Thanks for the breakdown, it is a great comparison and it really reinforces what most thought in terms of strength of schedule.

                Comment


                • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                  Originally posted by D2D View Post

                  So, using this method to compare the relative strength of each conference there is little doubt that the WCHA is the stronger league, top to bottom. Then again, there are no doubt other ways you could use to answer your question and perhaps draw a different conclusion.
                  I did a simple average of their RPI values (I hope without mistakes or typos):
                  WCHA = .5704
                  ECAC = .5079

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                    I'm not convinced that comparing an entire 12 team conference to a 7 team conference is necessarily apples to apples. Take the top 8 teams from the ECAC against the 7 teams from the WCHA and you get a different answer. Can't argue that teams 9-12 in the ECAC are considerably weaker than that at the bottom of the WCHA and they skew the results rather significantly. The PW numbers don't support the 7 team WCHA being dominant over the top 8 from the ECAC.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                      Originally posted by BackyardIce View Post
                      I'm not convinced that comparing an entire 12 team conference to a 7 team conference is necessarily apples to apples. Take the top 8 teams from the ECAC against the 7 teams from the WCHA and you get a different answer. Can't argue that teams 9-12 in the ECAC are considerably weaker than that at the bottom of the WCHA and they skew the results rather significantly. The PW numbers don't support the 7 team WCHA being dominant over the top 8 from the ECAC.
                      The RPI of the 'median' team of the WCHA - Duluth - is .5838

                      The RPI of the 'median' teams - Colgate and Yale - are .5371 and .5189

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                        Originally posted by BackyardIce View Post
                        I'm not convinced that comparing an entire 12 team conference to a 7 team conference is necessarily apples to apples. Take the top 8 teams from the ECAC against the 7 teams from the WCHA and you get a different answer. Can't argue that teams 9-12 in the ECAC are considerably weaker than that at the bottom of the WCHA and they skew the results rather significantly. The PW numbers don't support the 7 team WCHA being dominant over the top 8 from the ECAC.
                        If a team played only the top eight teams in the ECAC, then your analysis would be accurate. Since, in fact, they play the teams all the ways down to #12, it is not.

                        Besides, the PWR is wrong in exactly the same way you are. RPI is such a trainwreck of a formula that they have to drop the games you win against teams with a much lower winning percentage than your own before running the calculations for PWR. Cornell is probably dropping at least the bottom four teams in the conference from the numbers you're looking at. So, this idea wouldn't even help your arguments even if it were correct.

                        Edit: Using KRACH, which is not only mathematically a better formula, but also designed to do exactly this kind of thing, I calculated that if every team in the WCHA played a single game against each of the top eight teams in the ECAC, the WCHA's expected winning percentage is .598. If the WCHA were allowed to arbitrarily drop it's weakest team in the same way that you've arbitrarily decided that the four worst teams in the ECAC don't count, that goes up to .662. I'll leave it to you to decide if that would be considered dominant.
                        Last edited by Still Eeyore; 02-11-2020, 09:43 AM.

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                        • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                          Today's poll, not surprisingly, has Cornell as a unanimous #1, all fifteen #1 votes.

                          The next four teams - Wisconsin, Northeastern, Minnesota, and Ohio State - appear to form a self-contained group in the poll; all 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th votes going to them.

                          It looks fairly likely that Wisconsin has nine 2nd place votes and six 3rd place votes. And it looks like Ohio State has five 4th place and ten 5th place votes.

                          Northeastern and Minnesota are tied. There's probably a number of ways to make the numbers work, but one that works to get then to their tie, as well as working with the Wisconsin and Ohio State votes is:

                          Northeastern: three 2nd, five 3rd, four 4th, and three 5th
                          Minnesota: three 2nd, four 3rd, six 4th, and two 5th

                          ------------------------

                          Wisconsin: (9 x 9) + (6 x 8) = 129
                          Northeastern: (3 x 9) + (5 x 8) + (4 x 7) + (3 x 6) = 113
                          Minnesota: (3 x 9) + (4 x 8) + (6 x 7) + (2 x 6) = 113
                          Ohio State: (5 x 7) + (10 x 6) = 95

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                          • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                            USCHO Division I Women's Poll - February 17, 2020
                            Rnk Team (Last Poll)
                            1. Cornell (1)
                            2. Wisconsin (2)
                            3. Northeastern (3)
                            3. Minnesota (4}
                            5. Ohio State (6)
                            6. Princeton (5)
                            7. Clarkson (6)
                            8. Boston University (9)
                            9. Minnesota Duluth (8)
                            10. Quinnipiac (10)
                            Others receiving votes: Harvard 5, Providence 1

                            No significant changes this week, with no team moving up or down by more than one. Despite being idle this past week, Minnesota was able to climb back into a tie at No. 3 with Northeastern as the Huskies were tied by BU in the Beanpot, then lost at home in overtime to Providence.
                            Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                            • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                              For comparison ...

                              KRACH
                              1) Cornell
                              2) Wisconsin
                              3) Minnesota
                              4) Ohio State
                              5) Northeastern
                              6) Princeton
                              7) UMD
                              8) Clarkson
                              9) BU
                              10) Bemidji State

                              WCHODR
                              1) Cornell
                              2) Northeastern
                              3) Minnesota
                              4) Wisconsin
                              5) Ohio State
                              6) UMD
                              7) Clarkson
                              8) Princeton
                              9) BU
                              10) Quinnipiac

                              And the only one that matters, the PairWise
                              1) Cornell
                              2) Wisconsin
                              3) Minnesota
                              4) Northeastern
                              5) Ohio State
                              6) Princeton
                              7) Clarkson
                              8) BU
                              9) UMD
                              10) Quinnipiac
                              "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                              And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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                              • Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

                                The USA/Today poll seems out of wack, or maybe the heads of those voting are.
                                With all the ranting over RPI, I don't see how anybody can argue against the order it comes up with at this point in time.

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