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2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

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  • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

    Originally posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
    When Michigan State won the NCAA title in 2006-7, their captain was Chris Lawrence. He was a 4th line plumber who scored one goal all season, and wasn't an automatic lineup choice. He was just the personality that the guys needed. I'm viewing Brice as the same type, and knowing both of them personally there are a lot of similarities. It can work, it's just not what anyone is used to.
    Personally I don't see a problem with it. I like Brice and whether his in our out doesn't seem to be all that important. Of course, there are a lot of things I like that others don't.... like cold weather, or snowshoeing, or Kimchi.
    MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

    It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

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    • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

      Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
      Personally I don't see a problem with it. I like Brice and whether his in our out doesn't seem to be all that important. Of course, there are a lot of things I like that others don't.... like cold weather, or snowshoeing, or Kimchi.
      I agree with all of this. Except kimchi

      Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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      • Originally posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
        When Michigan State won the NCAA title in 2006-7, their captain was Chris Lawrence. He was a 4th line plumber who scored one goal all season, and wasn't an automatic lineup choice. He was just the personality that the guys needed. I'm viewing Brice as the same type, and knowing both of them personally there are a lot of similarities. It can work, it's just not what anyone is used to.
        Sorry if the format is funky. Writing this on my phone.

        I apologize but I don’t think I got my point across properly.

        Playing time is all the boys have as collegiate hockey players. Being a upperclassmen and having playing time puts you in a position of leadership based on natural pecking order type stuff. No you don’t need a C or an A. But the voice of guys who play half the time don’t have the same power. It just how it is. It is basic basic team dynamics.

        Naming a guy captain then sitting him in the stands undermines the leadership he has been recognized with by being given the C. And by doing so you disrespect the entire structure of leadership.

        The leadership of the group is the conduit from the team to the staff! A coach who does not understand these very basic team dynamics has some serious problems.

        Ray should be playing, most certainly if it is not a big difference with him out of the lineup as others are suggesting. Hopefully Joe can recognize his error and repair the damage that most certainly has occurred. The coaches need to have the back of their team leadership and vice versa.

        Chris Lawrence may have been a 3-4th liner who scored 7 points but I am guessing the 2 games he missed that season he was not a scratch.

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        • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

          Originally posted by Checkmate View Post
          Sorry if the format is funky. Writing this on my phone.

          I apologize but I don’t think I got my point across properly.

          Playing time is all the boys have as collegiate hockey players. Being a upperclassmen and having playing time puts you in a position of leadership based on natural pecking order type stuff. No you don’t need a C or an A. But the voice of guys who play half the time don’t have the same power. It just how it is. It is basic basic team dynamics.

          Naming a guy captain then sitting him in the stands undermines the leadership he has been recognized with by being given the C. And by doing so you disrespect the entire structure of leadership.

          The leadership of the group is the conduit from the team to the staff! A coach who does not understand these very basic team dynamics has some serious problems.

          Ray should be playing, most certainly if it is not a big difference with him out of the lineup as others are suggesting. Hopefully Joe can recognize his error and repair the damage that most certainly has occurred. The coaches need to have the back of their team leadership and vice versa.

          Chris Lawrence may have been a 3-4th liner who scored 7 points but I am guessing the 2 games he missed that season he was not a scratch.
          Are you saying Brice should be playing because he has the C? Even if he's not the guy that give you the best chance to win by having him on the ice?

          Or are you saying Brice should not have the C because he isn't the guy that gives you the best chance to win when he's on the ice?

          I will not claim to know more about the dynamics of the dressing room than Shawhan does. He has said many times he likes Brice's work effort and passion for the team. If he thinks someone else give him a better chance to win, I don't want Brice, or anyone else, in the lineup just because there is a letter on his chest.

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          • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

            Originally posted by MTUHuskies View Post
            Are you saying Brice should be playing because he has the C? Even if he's not the guy that give you the best chance to win by having him on the ice?

            Or are you saying Brice should not have the C because he isn't the guy that gives you the best chance to win when he's on the ice?

            I will not claim to know more about the dynamics of the dressing room than Shawhan does. He has said many times he likes Brice's work effort and passion for the team. If he thinks someone else give him a better chance to win, I don't want Brice, or anyone else, in the lineup just because there is a letter on his chest.

            Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
            I personally think in some ways Brice not playing is a sign that his leadership is working. If he's not playing that means others are giving the effort to earn playing time and beat out the leader and his max effort. Not to say that him playing more often would be a bad thing.

            I do think I'd have a bigger concern if Brice didn't make the traveling party but he played at Robert Morris and at BGSU. I'm guessing he was one of the extra skaters they brought to UND. If we start seeing him not make the traveling party for a road series, I will 100% agree that this was a mistake but that hasnt happen yet.
            Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

            Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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            • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

              Originally posted by Checkmate View Post
              Sorry if the format is funky. Writing this on my phone.

              I apologize but I don’t think I got my point across properly.

              Playing time is all the boys have as collegiate hockey players. Being a upperclassmen and having playing time puts you in a position of leadership based on natural pecking order type stuff. No you don’t need a C or an A. But the voice of guys who play half the time don’t have the same power. It just how it is. It is basic basic team dynamics.

              Naming a guy captain then sitting him in the stands undermines the leadership he has been recognized with by being given the C. And by doing so you disrespect the entire structure of leadership.

              The leadership of the group is the conduit from the team to the staff! A coach who does not understand these very basic team dynamics has some serious problems.

              Ray should be playing, most certainly if it is not a big difference with him out of the lineup as others are suggesting. Hopefully Joe can recognize his error and repair the damage that most certainly has occurred. The coaches need to have the back of their team leadership and vice versa.

              Chris Lawrence may have been a 3-4th liner who scored 7 points but I am guessing the 2 games he missed that season he was not a scratch.
              We can't look this decision in a vacuum and need to take a step back. Joe admitted last year's culture was not good. The culture had to be changed. Sometimes to do that, one needs to implement solutions outside of the norm. One of those was to pick a character guy to lead the team. Yes, Ray might not be in the line-up all the time, but if he is keeping a health locker room environment, setting a good example at practice, doing everything and more than what is expected of him all while having a good attitude, even if he isn't playing all the time, I say good for him and he deserves the C.

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              • Originally posted by MTUHuskies View Post
                Are you saying Brice should be playing because he has the C? Even if he's not the guy that give you the best chance to win by having him on the ice?

                Or are you saying Brice should not have the C because he isn't the guy that gives you the best chance to win when he's on the ice?

                I will not claim to know more about the dynamics of the dressing room than Shawhan does. He has said many times he likes Brice's work effort and passion for the team. If he thinks someone else give him a better chance to win, I don't want Brice, or anyone else, in the lineup just because there is a letter on his chest.

                Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


                Did not say either, reread my post. Only thing I said about Rays play was that I think he makes the team better when he plays.

                Hockey players Are not lead by guys that don’t play no matter what the effort level. That is a very basic principle. It is as basic as guys don’t follow rookies. That is why we do not have a rash of captains being scratched. For a coach to not understand this or not respect it is troublesome to say the least.

                If you don’t play your captains you disrespect the position of leadership. No way to rationalize it. Either you disrespected it by naming your leadership when they should not have been or you disrespect it by not placing enough importance on them as a vital part of the team to be on the ice.

                The pecking order of leadership has playing time as a critical component. Like it or not it’s how it is. You don’t have to score but you gotta play. Having a great attitude and giving maximum effort all while not complaining is expected of all players not just the leaders.

                Gota give you guys on this thread credit for looking at the positives always. Wish I saw more.

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                • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                  Originally posted by Checkmate View Post
                  Did not say either, reread my post. Only thing I said about Rays play was that I think he makes the team better when he plays.

                  Hockey players Are not lead by guys that don’t play no matter what the effort level. That is a very basic principle. It is as basic as guys don’t follow rookies. That is why we do not have a rash of captains being scratched. For a coach to not understand this or not respect it is troublesome to say the least.

                  If you don’t play your captains you disrespect the position of leadership. No way to rationalize it. Either you disrespected it by naming your leadership when they should not have been or you disrespect it by not placing enough importance on them as a vital part of the team to be on the ice.

                  The pecking order of leadership has playing time as a critical component. Like it or not it’s how it is. You don’t have to score but you gotta play. Having a great attitude and giving maximum effort all while not complaining is expected of all players not just the leaders.

                  Gota give you guys on this thread credit for looking at the positives always. Wish I saw more.
                  Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but i'm pretty sure the coaches are totally aware of the implications. They are former players and they've been around quite a bit.
                  MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

                  It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                    Originally posted by Checkmate View Post
                    If you don’t play your captains you disrespect the position of leadership. No way to rationalize it.
                    I will disagree with this statement and reply with one simply question:
                    What percentage of the team's success happens on the ice during games ~35 nights out of the year vs off the ice ~330 days a year?

                    If the team is not making the effort the other 330 days per year they DON'T have a game, there will be little to no success on game days. I think leadership ABSOLUTELY can have influence outside of games, and honestly if you want to build a winner, those non-game days are far more important about setting the tone for where you want to go.

                    In my opinion, the staff sees him as a leader the majority of the time who is setting the example that needs to be followed, so he wears the "C". Playing time during games is for the best PLAYERS on the team. The best LEADERS on the team have the honor of wearing the letters, even if their jersey is hanging in the equipment room on game day. In many cases those two groups of players and leaders do not fully overlap. How many great PLAYERS get passed over for a captain's letter? It happens all the time. They have tons of talent but don't set the best example so they are just a player who plays a lot and scores a lot... but they are not a leader, and thus are not recognized as one.

                    I feel your mindset is based on the NHL, NFL, etc with professional players where the captains are all quarterbacks, leading scorers and the highest paid players. If your captain is sitting 50% of the time in a professional league, then yes, I agree there is a problem. However college sports have a very different dynamic in my opinion.
                    Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
                    https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
                    Originally posted by geezer
                    Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
                    Originally posted by manurespreader
                    ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

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                    • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                      Then there's the implication to the other team. "Where's their captain?" "He doesn't always play." "Why is a guy that sucks the captain?" You say that this may not matter a whit, but I argue that it does. I've heard it asked when our captains have been injured or sucky.

                      GFM
                      Geof F. Morris
                      UAH BSE MAE 2002
                      UAHHockey.com

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                        Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                        Then there's the implication to the other team. "Where's their captain?" "He doesn't always play." "Why is a guy that sucks the captain?" You say that this may not matter a whit, but I argue that it does. I've heard it asked when our captains have been injured or sucky.

                        GFM
                        Oh, I don't think there's any question this is true and checkmate has a good point. However, coaches have reasons for doing things. It's sometimes not obvious to us as fans. I'd rather spend my time Bit####g about the power play.
                        MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

                        It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                          Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
                          Oh, I don't think there's any question this is true and checkmate has a good point. However, coaches have reasons for doing things. It's sometimes not obvious to us as fans. I'd rather spend my time Bit####g about the power play.
                          Fair enough Joe seems to do things his own way. Nothing surprises me.

                          GFM
                          Geof F. Morris
                          UAH BSE MAE 2002
                          UAHHockey.com

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                            Originally posted by Checkmate View Post
                            Sorry if the format is funky. Writing this on my phone.

                            I apologize but I don’t think I got my point across properly.

                            Playing time is all the boys have as collegiate hockey players. Being a upperclassmen and having playing time puts you in a position of leadership based on natural pecking order type stuff. No you don’t need a C or an A. But the voice of guys who play half the time don’t have the same power. It just how it is. It is basic basic team dynamics.

                            Naming a guy captain then sitting him in the stands undermines the leadership he has been recognized with by being given the C. And by doing so you disrespect the entire structure of leadership.

                            The leadership of the group is the conduit from the team to the staff! A coach who does not understand these very basic team dynamics has some serious problems.

                            Ray should be playing, most certainly if it is not a big difference with him out of the lineup as others are suggesting. Hopefully Joe can recognize his error and repair the damage that most certainly has occurred. The coaches need to have the back of their team leadership and vice versa.

                            Chris Lawrence may have been a 3-4th liner who scored 7 points but I am guessing the 2 games he missed that season he was not a scratch.
                            Lawrence was a healthy scratch in both those games. He was also one of the first to lose playing time when the bench was shortened late in games. It never affected the leadership dynamic.

                            I think Jake Lucchini's game suffered wearing a letter last season. It can be a detriment to a player to have leadership thrust upon them. Ray has the right mindset to be in the leadership group, and if he's not in the lineup that's the reason you have alternate captains.

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                            • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                              Originally posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
                              Lawrence was a healthy scratch in both those games. He was also one of the first to lose playing time when the bench was shortened late in games. It never affected the leadership dynamic.

                              I think Jake Lucchini's game suffered wearing a letter last season. It can be a detriment to a player to have leadership thrust upon them. Ray has the right mindset to be in the leadership group, and if he's not in the lineup that's the reason you have alternate captains.
                              like I said earlier, the most important aspect of this is that he has to be in the traveling party for road series. If he's healthy and not traveling, then I have an issue with it.
                              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                              • Re: 2019-20 Michigan Tech Season Thread. Broetzman has us off to a Bliss-ful start!

                                Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                                like I said earlier, the most important aspect of this is that he has to be in the traveling party for road series. If he's healthy and not traveling, then I have an issue with it.
                                How many extras can travel? I thought it was only the playing roster. Didn't Tech run into not being able to fill the roster on a Saturday in Blown Groin a couple years ago because they lost a few guys in the Friday night game?

                                Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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