Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

    I think you are having a completely different argument than you think you are. I will let uno handle it
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

    Comment


    • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
      I think you are having a completely different argument than you think you are. I will let uno handle it
      Well, I'm having my side the same as I think. I wouldn't rule out the other side isn't on board.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I don't agree. The 14A already covers all of this. It just requires a lot of legislative and judicial work to remove the garbage bigots were able to encrust over it over time.

        The principle and the ethical reality are already there, shining through. The effort is to scrape off all the grime the Thumpers smeared all over it.

        LGBT do not require our liberation. They only require bigots stop being allowed to persecute them. They're already free and equal -- nobody gave them that, it was always so. All that is happening now is we are stopping tards from punching them in the face.
        14A applies to governments, not private entities. The default is private entities can do anything they want unless restricted by statute. In this case, the Civil Rights Act. So the question is whether the Civil Rights Act, which explicitly prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex but not explicitly on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, nevertheless prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity as a subset of sex.

        I think you can more easily get there with gender identity than sexual orientation.
        Last edited by unofan; 05-14-2020, 01:44 PM.

        Comment


        • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

          Originally posted by unofan View Post
          14A applies to governments, not private entities. The default is private entities can do anything unless restricted by statute.
          I knew that.

          (Retires in shame.)
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

          Comment


          • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

            Originally posted by unofan View Post
            14A applies to governments, not private entities. The default is private entities can do anything they want unless restricted by statute. In this case, the Civil Rights Act. So the question is whether the Civil Rights Act, which explicitly prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex but not explicitly on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, nevertheless prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity as a subset of sex.

            I think you can more easily get there with gender identity than sexual orientation.
            I genuinely do not understand. The Act includes ~20 statements along the lines of "It shall be unlawful to discriminate in X activity on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." This is clearly not talking about sex acts/practices ("What? I have to hire that guy even though he was having sex during the interview?") - these categories are all about personal *identity*. You can't discriminate against someone on the basis of their racial identity, their religious identity, or, logically, their sexual identity. I don't know how you could possibly argue that sexual orientation is not part of someone's sexual identity, i.e. who they are sexually.
            If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
              I genuinely do not understand. The Act includes ~20 statements along the lines of "It shall be unlawful to discriminate in X activity on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." This is clearly not talking about sex acts/practices ("What? I have to hire that guy even though he was having sex during the interview?") - these categories are all about personal *identity*. You can't discriminate against someone on the basis of their racial identity, their religious identity, or, logically, their sexual identity. I don't know how you could possibly argue that sexual orientation is not part of someone's sexual identity, i.e. who they are sexually.
              Because 'sex' in this context has been synonymous with gender since it was enacted. You're right that it has nothing to do with the bedroom activities. That's kinda my point.

              Someone says: "I identify as a pansexual womyn" - I would say it explicitly protects on the basis of being a womyn. I don't necessarily think it protects on the basis of being pansexual.

              The Court may disagree and say it does, and I'd be fine with that since it's the morally correct outcome. I'd rather the Feds make it moot by just adding sexual orientation to the statute.
              Last edited by unofan; 05-14-2020, 03:05 PM.

              Comment


              • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                Originally posted by unofan View Post
                The Court may disagree and say it does, and I'd be fine with that since it's the morally correct outcome. I'd rather the Feds make it moot by just adding sexual orientation to the statute.
                Hopefully that happens 18 seconds after we take Congress.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                Comment


                • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  Hopefully that happens 18 seconds after we take Congress.
                  Premature legislation?
                  If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                  Comment


                  • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                    Premature legislation?
                    "It happens to every chamber sometimes, Madge, it's no big deal..."
                    Cornell University
                    National Champion 1967, 1970
                    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                    Comment


                    • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                      Originally posted by unofan View Post
                      I don't think it does, which is why I think the case involving transgendered people is actually easier to win.

                      I struggle with defining sex in the gender sense as inherently encompassing sexual orientation though. In my mind, one's gender is a different concept from who one wants to fark.
                      pssst... "transgendered" not a word.
                      Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
                      "One word frees us from the weight and pain of this life. That word is love."- Socrates
                      Patreon for exclusive writing content
                      Adventures With Amber Marie

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MissThundercat View Post
                        pssst... "transgendered" not a word.
                        Psst. The dictionary disagrees.

                        trans·gen·der
                        /transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
                        adjective: transgendered

                        Comment


                        • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                          Either way, it's fun to pontificate what will happen, but please understand my community does not have an easy feeling about this decision. We are fearing the worst.

                          Transgender people trusting any part of the government to get it right? HA. Right. I'll sing the praises of kale before that happens.
                          Last edited by MissThundercat; 05-14-2020, 10:28 PM.
                          Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
                          "One word frees us from the weight and pain of this life. That word is love."- Socrates
                          Patreon for exclusive writing content
                          Adventures With Amber Marie

                          Comment


                          • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                            And if it goes the way I expect it will (my friends and I aren't expecting sunshine, rainbows, and kittens when this decision is handed down), listen first. All I ask.
                            Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
                            "One word frees us from the weight and pain of this life. That word is love."- Socrates
                            Patreon for exclusive writing content
                            Adventures With Amber Marie

                            Comment


                            • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                              Comment


                              • Re: SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

                                Of course it is. There isn’t even any shame when he says it

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X