UVM Catamounts 2019/20

[jfromvt]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

All the angst on this board. Sneddon is gone after this year, even he knows it and I think he is burnt out. Schulman see the apathy that has set in with the fan base, the guy is not stupid. I give the players and staff credit for playing hard and smart this weekend. PC struggled to score goals against these teams and had two OT games. It may not be a great next few months, but lets try and be somewhat positive, if at least for the players’ sake.

[Charlie Catamount]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

All the angst on this board. Sneddon is gone after this year, even he knows it and I think he is burnt out. Schulman see the apathy that has set in with the fan base, the guy is not stupid. I give the players and staff credit for playing hard and smart this weekend. PC struggled to score goals against these teams and had two OT games. It may not be a great next few months, but lets try and be somewhat positive, if at least for the players’ sake.

I'm sure you're right but I hope you understand a lot of people here lost a lot of trust in Schulman after he quietly guaranteed the last 2 years of Sneddon's contract which subesquently led to back to back terrible seasons prior to this one. He has also made very poor and cringeworthy public comments on the state of the team. For example:

When he gave Sneddon the final 2 years of his deal he had lines like this"

"“I know who we are, what our capabilities are and what the leadership is,” said Schulman, who played four seasons for the Catamounts before returning to the school as an athletic administrator in 1993. “I understand not everybody will agree. Nobody feels great about where things are right now but I continue to believe Kevin Sneddon is the right person to be leading the program.”"

"“It would be a mistake to look at the last four years and say the program has been wallowing,” said Schulman, who pointed out that among challenges facing the program are the outdated Gutterson Fieldhouse and ancillary facilities."

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ct/1005800001/

This was a clear slap in the face to people who were questioning the direction of the program I felt. Telling people "I know who we are" was code for "you people don't know anything and we've never been good" which I've posted the numbers here before despite what people said about the Gilligan years not being great the last 10 years of this program under Sneddon's leadership are the historical worst stretch in program history. Not even Gilligan did this bad pre-hazing. Just signaled unambition and a reason to keep someone around that was not up for the job. Hard to trust someone who feels that way.

Of course after saying "I know who we are" he followed it up at the end of last season with this:

“It’s very realistic for us to aspire to a national level of competitive success,” Schulman said.

“We proven that we can do that. Kevin has taken our program to the NCAA tournament on three different occasions. We’ve gone to a Frozen Four under his leadership,” Schulman said.

Schulman acknowledged that the Catamounts have not met those competitive goals for the last two seasons, but said, “I’m confident we can get back to that level of national success in short order.”

He pointed out that the college hockey landscape is changing and that many historically strong programs — including Boston College, Boston University, North Dakota and Michigan — are likely to miss this year’s NCAA tournament unless they win their respective league tournaments.

“It’s challenging to be at the top every year but that’s our goal frankly,” he said. “We want to be in the hunt nationally on a regular basis.


That comes across as one a bit of a backtrack because UVM can actually reach national success and have making his comments that came across as there's no way with what they have sound stupid. Maybe he figured that out and read up on here in the aftermath of his comments then. However he should not have bet on his confidence because they did not get back to that success in fact they've done much worse. So could he not see that coming or was he just so concerned about not biting the bullet and cutting losses to get rid of Sneddon with a year left? Financial situation aside he's done it under his watch before twice with women's basketball so why the special dispensation here? Noting that national powers had a down year is also classic false equivalency.

Furthermore in the same article Schulman said this about the attendance and apathy levels:

"Schulman pointed to an overall softening in attendance at live professional and collegiate sports events nationwide but said success — or lack of it — can affect people’s desire to attend games."

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ct/3210642002/

The fact that he even had to make note of a something else beside results tells me this is a guy who looks to move the goalposts as much as possible or wants an out at every turn so his actions are not harshly graded.

This is the biggest decision of his tenure and will shape the entire future of his legacy. I sure hope he gets it right but his public comments and actions over the last few years have given me pause just as they would any other rational person.

[jfromvt]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

Charlie Cat - good points, and don’t get me wrong, it is time for Sneddon to leave. I think it’s a done deal he is gone. I’ve heard through the grapevine he is ready to leave.

But while we are all dumping on him, calling the last 10 years the worst stretch in UVM history is a bit of a stretch. They did have three 20+ seasons in there, and at least one NCAA appearance (maybe two, just too lazy to check). The low point in UVM hockey was the hazing incident. Gilligan had 6 straight losing seasons to end his career after St. Louis and company left, plus the hazing. Cross was 0.457 after UVM went D1; they were good the first few years, then had a good season in 1980, the Olympic year when all the good college players were gone. Other than that, not much. Cross and Gilligan left because the program was in the doldrums, the same will happen with Sneddon. That’s the cycle for an average program like UVM (which has an all-time winning percentage of 0.477 before this year as a D1 program, for those that like to think we are an above average program).

[Charlie Catamount]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

Charlie Cat - good points, and don’t get me wrong, it is time for Sneddon to leave. I think it’s a done deal he is gone. I’ve heard through the grapevine he is ready to leave.

But while we are all dumping on him, calling this last 10 years the worst stretch in UVM history, is a bit of a stretch. They did have three 20+ seasons in there, and at least one NCAA appearance (maybe two, just too lazy to check). The low point in UVM hockey was the hazing incident. Gilligan had 6 straight losing seasons to end his career, after St. Louis and company left, plus the hazing. Cross was 0.457 in the years UVM went D1; they were good the first few years, then had a good season in 1980, the Olympic year when all the good college players were gone. Other than that, not much. Cross and Gilligan left because the program was in the doldrums, the same will happen with Sneddon. That’s the cycle for an average program like UVM (which has an all-time winning percentage of 0.477 before this year as a D1 program, for those that like to think we are an above average program).

You're entitled to your opinion. I'll just leave what I wrote last year here: https://board.uscho.com/showthread.p...37#post6772037

In short:

Gilligan from 1984-1993 (pre-St. Louis/Thomas/Perrin): .134-134-14 (.500) overall; 90-97-9 (.482) in conference play, 1 NCAA
Sneddon from 2010/11 season to now: 127-181-36 (.421) overall; 64-126-34 (.361), 1 NCAA

Yes the hazing stuff was the low point for the program and the fallout on the ice suffered in direct response nobody is going to deny that. Was the team trending downward without that incident? It might have but the team also lost its three greatest players in history the year after too. But they recovered on the ice 5 years later in terms of results and while it's never forgotten people forgave and moved on. Sneddon enjoyed early success when Gilligan underclassmen became upperclassmen like Scott Mifsud, Brady Liesenring, Jeff Corey, Jamie Sifers, Jeff Miles and solid role guys like Gerard Miller and Tim Plant too. All were there before he came and add in guys like Torrey Mitchell and Joe Fallon and others who may or may not have committed to the school under Gilligan or came because a guy like Damian DeGulilian who was a holdover from Gilligan's staff. The more I think about it the more it seems to me that the guy who went 50-99-18 at Union before taking this job was just really lucky to ride a wave to his greatest coaching success when he arrived 17 years ago and not some boy genius. The real Kevin Sneddon the coach has been what we've seen over the past 10 years.

However, right now purely on-ice with no extending circumstances this last decade stretch is by far the worst. Especially in league play which is the most ****ing...nobody is saying they want 8 NCAAs out of 10 years or something like that as wonderful as it would be but going once or twice and being competitive and placing around 6th on average with some top half finishes and teams that are nationally relevant isn't too much to ask. People showed to the games and the wait list existed because the big run in the late 90s but it sustained because people enjoyed watching a team that gave a hard effort and actually got results. I'm sure the players are trying their best. But they're not good enough and haven't been for a long time.

You can point to being .477 all-time all you want...but this last decade has played its part in that and this program has gone from being respected with a tradition that mattered to the school and the entire state to one that is a complete joke. You know it's bad when the most casual of sports fans in this state are chiming in on how bad it's gotten.

[jfromvt]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

You're entitled to your opinion. I'll just leave what I wrote last year here: https://board.uscho.com/showthread.p...37#post6772037

In short:

Gilligan from 1984-1993 (pre-St. Louis/Thomas/Perrin): .134-134-14 (.500) overall; 90-97-9 (.482) in conference play, 1 NCAA
Sneddon from 2010/11 season to now: 127-181-36 (.421) overall; 64-126-34 (.361), 1 NCAA

Yes the hazing stuff was the low point for the program and the fallout on the ice suffered in direct response nobody is going to deny that. Was the team trending downward without that incident? It might have but the team also lost its three greatest players in history the year after too. But they recovered on the ice 5 years later in terms of results and while it's never forgotten people forgave and moved on. Sneddon enjoyed early success when Gilligan underclassmen became upperclassmen like Scott Mifsud, Brady Liesenring, Jeff Corey, Jamie Sifers, Jeff Miles and solid role guys like Gerard Miller and Tim Plant too. All were there before he came and add in guys like Torrey Mitchell and Joe Fallon and others who may or may not have committed to the school under Gilligan or came because a guy like Damian DeGulilian who was a holdover from Gilligan's staff. The more I think about it the more it seems to me that the guy who went 50-99-18 at Union before taking this job was just really lucky to ride a wave to his greatest coaching success when he arrived 17 years ago and not some boy genius. The real Kevin Sneddon the coach has been what we've seen over the past 10 years.

However, right now purely on-ice with no extending circumstances this last decade stretch is by far the worst. Especially in league play which is the most ****ing...nobody is saying they want 8 NCAAs out of 10 years or something like that as wonderful as it would be but going once or twice and being competitive and placing around 6th on average with some top half finishes and teams that are nationally relevant isn't too much to ask. People showed to the games and the wait list existed because the big run in the late 90s but it sustained because people enjoyed watching a team that gave a hard effort and actually got results. I'm sure the players are trying their best. But they're not good enough and haven't been for a long time.

You can point to being .477 all-time all you want...but this last decade has played its part in that and this program has gone from being respected with a tradition that mattered to the school and the entire state to one that is a complete joke. You know it's bad when the most casual of sports fans in this state are chiming in on how bad it's gotten.

Let me cherry pick my stats too. Cross’ last 3 years they were 0.313, Gilligan’s last 3 years 0.368, Sneddon’s last 2 1/2 years, including this horrible team 0.356. So my point is he is ending his regime the same way the other two did, which is a program that desperately needs a new coach. He is no better or worse at this point than the two legends, who were gracefully allowed to “retire”. And they did not recover under Gilligan after the hazing, he was never close to 0.500 in any of his last 6 years.

[Charlie Catamount]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

Let me cherry pick my stats too. Cross’ last 3 years they were 0.313, Gilligan’s last 3 years 0.368, Sneddon’s last 2 1/2 years, including this horrible team 0.356. So my point is he is ending his regime the same way the other two did, which is a program that desperately needs a new coach. He is no better or worse at this point than the two legends, who were gracefully allowed to “retire”. And they did not recover under Gilligan after the hazing, he was never close to 0.500 in any of his last 6 years.

You've got your opinion and expectations and I've got mine. Not here to pick a fight with someone who looking back on posts is pretty set in their viewpoint but I would like to clear up one thing contextually. They "recovered" from the hazing as in 6 years after the cancellation of the season the events happened which was Sneddon's second year the team finished 4th ECAC and had 5 straight good seasons including the Hockey East finals appearance, Frozen Four and NCAAs. By no means am I advocating Gilligan should have kept his job but Sneddon was seemingly most successful riding Gilligan's last class of recruits a change was needed. But I think it says a lot that once that ride was over we got the Sneddon that we've had the last decade and "cherry picked" or not a decade of data says the guy has done worse on ice than the guy he took over for.

I'll stand by all the stats I laid out and my opinion.

[GreenCat]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

Let me cherry pick my stats too. Cross’ last 3 years they were 0.313, Gilligan’s last 3 years 0.368, Sneddon’s last 2 1/2 years, including this horrible team 0.356. So my point is he is ending his regime the same way the other two did, which is a program that desperately needs a new coach. He is no better or worse at this point than the two legends, who were gracefully allowed to “retire”. And they did not recover under Gilligan after the hazing, he was never close to 0.500 in any of his last 6 years.

UVM notoriously waits too long to make coaching changes...... I liked Gilligan but it was time for him to go 3 years before they made the change/ he retired.

[TeddySmooth]

Charlie Cat - good points, and don’t get me wrong, it is time for Sneddon to leave. I think it’s a done deal he is gone. I’ve heard through the grapevine he is ready to leave.

This what I've also heard. Everyone knows he's done. I even heard he needs neck surgery and the main issue is figuring out if he can get it done while he is still employed and with health insurance. I wouldn't be surprised for him to go on medical leave at some point and not return.

[jcarter7669]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

Regardless of who had worse seasons or in what years you can't overlook the most important fact... the quality of the program as a whole.

I signed up for season tickets as an undergrad (they weren't free back then) and 9 years later I finally was able to get two season tickets that didn't require a Victory Club donation. There is no longer a waiting list and certainly no one is coughing up money to the Victory Club to get them. Attendance is dismal and embarrassing and the only thing that has declined more is optimism for the team to have a successful season.

The Catamount Cup, while a nice, was an abberration. You simply can not expect Lekas to pitch shut outs every game and that's basically the requirement for the Cats to win. Time to give Sneddon the rest of the season off, have neck surgery if he needs it and elevate an assistant to take over while a search begins. If nothing else, maybe it will stir a small amount of optimism and fill some seats. I'd consider buying season tickets again just knowing Sneddon isn't returning, regardless of who takes over.

[pokecheckguy2]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

they should fire Sneddon after another pathetic performance! and what a jerk not taking out Lekkas!! really putting your NECK out for the team you jerk! someone pay for his surgery and recover time to not coach right now
Biggest embarrassment in college hockey!!

[VTALUM]

they should fire Sneddon after another pathetic performance! and what a jerk not taking out Lekkas!! really putting your NECK out for the team you jerk! someone pay for his surgery and recover time to not coach right now
Biggest embarrassment in college hockey!!

This is too harsh. Sneddon just isn’t good for this program anymore; let’s not wish him any ill will. The hard working athletes in this program deserve a change, but Sneddon should be given any and all benefits to which he was promised. The program just needs to move forward; without Sneddon in charge.

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

I was pleasantly surprised with the UVM effort through about 10 minutes in the first. That's not going to cut it, especially against this BC team. I feel bad for Lekkas, he obviously has no help in front of him, got shelled and I was and still am under the impression he is a good goalie (but I'm not UVM expert).

The defense was really struggling to handle the BC forecheck, which was some of the most aggressive I've seen from BC in many years. Many many times BC took the puck right off a UVM stick as they tried to manage a breakout deep in the UVM defensive end. They really looked slow with the sticks and decision making back there.

I'm not sure where UVM is headed as a program right now. Doesn't look like a good long-term situation. So yes, a coaching change is probably a good way to shake things up and hope for a situation like UMass is in right now.

[j24vt]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

They scored 3 goals!

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

I was pleasantly surprised with the UVM effort through about 10 minutes in the first. That's not going to cut it, especially against this BC team. I feel bad for Lekkas, he obviously has no help in front of him, got shelled and I was and still am under the impression he is a good goalie (but I'm not UVM expert).

The defense was really struggling to handle the BC forecheck, which was some of the most aggressive I've seen from BC in many years. Many many times BC took the puck right off a UVM stick as they tried to manage a breakout deep in the UVM defensive end. They really looked slow with the sticks and decision making back there.

I'm not sure where UVM is headed as a program right now. Doesn't look like a good long-term situation. So yes, a coaching change is probably a good way to shake things up and hope for a situation like UMass is in right now.

Agree. Thought they also played well in parts of the second, particularly when it was 3-2 BC. UVM had a number of really good opportunities to tie it at 3 and couldn't. Overall though, the game painfully demonstrated how far we are from being able to compete with top-tier teams, even with an above average goalie. We haven't always been good in years past, but I felt the compete factor was there, and we'd sometimes come away with a W. Now I feel we don't even belong on the same ice with a team like BC. Very sad. Hope things can turn around with a new coach, but this may be our reality for years to come.

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: UVM Catamounts 2019/20

They scored 3 goals!

Indeed. And we're in the midst of a 2-1 stretch!