Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Brianna Deckers qualifications right now are probably similar to what Johnson had when he got the women’s job.

Decker is obviously one of my all-time favorite UW players - probably the best hands on a UW player ever; watch the video below - but what you say here is just not remotely close to true.

(Any excuse to watch this one again :-) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

[Lindsay]

Decker is obviously one of my all-time favorite UW players - probably the best hands on a UW player ever; watch the video below - but what you say here is just not remotely close to true.

(Any excuse to watch this one again :-) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

Hah. Yea she’s awesome. Like I said not looking to fight, and I have respect for the contributions of the many great coaches male and female to the women’s game. But...what was Johnson’s coaching experience before taking over the women’s program? I thought he had some USA hockey coaching experience at the asst coaching level? Was full of potential as a coach, an obvious hire, but not proven?

Edit: ok I see he was asst coach on the men’s team for several years. My apologies. That part is different. But note that asst men’s coach to head coach on women’s team is not a feeder path that exists much if at all for women right now. Just some food for thought Wisconsin fans.

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

I don’t know why you assume I am suggesting unqualified women be given jobs.

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

As for Johnson vs Decker, I guess the difference in experience would be based on how much value one places on NHL experience as a player and being the son of someone who was both a college and NHL coach. Coaches kids often look at the game differently from young on. Johnson was about a dozen years older, with more hockey seasons behind him, than Decker is now.

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Hah. Yea she’s awesome. Like I said not looking to fight, and I have respect for the contributions of the many great coaches male and female to the women’s game. But...what was Johnson’s coaching experience before taking over the women’s program? I thought he had some USA hockey coaching experience at the asst coaching level? Was full of potential as a coach, an obvious hire, but not proven?

Six years as an assistant with the UW men's team.

[Lindsay]

Seven years as an assistant with the UW men's team.

Yes I see that now! Revised my comment. My apologies, didn’t know that part of his bio. Still sticking to my original point, but you are right in that he
Came from feeder system that doesn’t really exist for women coaches. Just my 2 cents, and Koch is the likely and deserving future successor, but just some food for thought that I hope we’ll see more and more qualified women getting these jobs, especially the best ones in the country.

[Lindsay]

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

As for Johnson vs Decker, I guess the difference in experience would be based on how much value one places on NHL experience as a player and being the son of someone who was both a college and NHL coach. Coaches kids often look at the game differently from young on. Johnson was about a dozen years older, with more hockey seasons behind him, than Decker is now.

It’s all good ARM, appreciate the thoughtful response. You know I am just passionate about seeing deserving candidates get great opportunities, and anxious to see change. I always want the best candidate to get a job, but passionately believe there are more qualified women out there who could do a great job and literally be the best candidate.

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Yes I see that now! Revised my comment. My apologies, didn’t know that part of his bio. Still sticking to my original point, but you are right in that he
Came from feeder system that doesn’t really exist for women coaches. Just my 2 cents, and Koch is the likely and deserving future successor, but just some food for thought that I hope we’ll see more and more qualified women getting these jobs, especially the best ones in the country.

There are a number of former UW players who are coaching or have coached at NCAA schools: Jinnelle Zaugg is currently at St Cloud and before that was at Robert Morris (I think), Meghan Duggan at Clarkson, Kelly Nash at Princeton; also Carla Macleod at a college (or two?) in Canada as well as an assistant for the Japanese Olympic team. Probably others I am missing.

(There's a Kelly Nash highlight that I love, and Gophers fans hate, but I'll hold off posting that one. A Jinnie Zaugg one as well, but I'll hold that one too)

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

My problem with this line of argument is that it is never deployed the other way around. No one ever says that a terrible hire of a man to coach a men's team is because they were specifically trying to hire a man, even though that is 100% true of every single time a man is hired to coach a men's team, even if the hiring party rarely says that explicitly to themselves.

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

No one ever says that a terrible hire of a man to coach a men's team is because they were specifically trying to hire a man, even though that is 100% true of every single time a man is hired to coach a men's team...

This is the women's forum, so I don't post much about men's teams. It's not my fault if you don't like what you read on some other forum. Let's look at Penn State women's team. Just about any female coach would have been a better option as the program's first coach. But was the problem that the AD hired a man or that the AD hired a poor coach for the position?

Most of the people that I promote to leadership positions at my workplace tend to be women, but that is because there are more qualified female candidates. I find it to be limiting to say than any hire has to be of a certain gender, because the job requirements are a set of skills, not physical attributes.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

(Any excuse to watch this one again :-) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

Ha! Love that highlight. I had just reminded my son of that play before the faceoff that lead to the SS OT winner. Awesome.

A coach should be hired solely on their ability to do the job and nothing else.

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

This is the women's forum, so I don't post much about men's teams. It's not my fault if you don't like what you read on some other forum. Let's look at Penn State women's team. Just about any female coach would have been a better option as the program's first coach. But was the problem that the AD hired a man or that the AD hired a poor coach for the position?

Most of the people that I promote to leadership positions at my workplace tend to be women, but that is because there are more qualified female candidates. I find it to be limiting to say than any hire has to be of a certain gender, because the job requirements are a set of skills, not physical attributes.

This is not an issue that can be isolated by saying, "I only talk about women's sports." Doing so requires ignoring the elephant that is squeezing everything else out of the room. When it comes to hiring coaches, being male is always a requirement to coach a men's team, but people only claim that the candidate pool is limited when discussing hiring a woman to coach women. That means that women have to cross a barrier that men never do.

Even when a school is determined to hire a woman to coach women, that isn't the only criterion on their list for who they hire.* There was a long list of things that the new coach was supposed to be able to do. Out of that list of attributes, you're focusing on "Female" as the problem. Maybe you ought to spend your time focusing on the attributes that actually matter to the job, and figure out why a given hire wasn't successful.

So long as affirmative action for mediocre white men is allowed to pass by without comment, making a big deal when someone tries to hire a woman or person of color is a problem.

*And if it is the only criterion on their list, the problem still isn't that a woman was hired. It's that the hiring was done by morons.

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

*And if it is the only criterion on their list, the problem still isn't that a woman was hired. It's that the hiring was done by morons.

There's a very serious conversation to be had about the development of women coaches, as well.

There ARE few women with the experience to take head coaching jobs because there are few women in assistant jobs and few women in HS HC jobs and few women encouraged or supported to coach at the pee wee level. There has to be mentorship and support to make sure that women are moving up the ranks. It's a systemic issue that has improved slightly in recent years, but that is going to take a concerted effort to continue to change. The growth of the game at the playing level means there are now more former players to go into coaching roles and we are seeing former players getting roles as assistants, but that can't be the only model to get women coaches, either. Secondly (or concurrently) - women tend to get a shorter rope, have a higher standard to achieve to be considered successful and, when they are let go, they rarely get the (countless) new and additional chances that men get.

TLDR; it's a systemic issue that starts at the bottom and requires widespread work and it's disingenuous to talk about whether or not there are "qualified" women if you don't examine WHY there aren't

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

It's a great day for hockey! Let's see 2 games today.

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

The 'news' from the Badger game today is that #1 goalie, Kristine Campbell, did not play and was not dressed. Unknown (to me. anyway) how long she might be out. She was at the game, on the bench with no obvious cast on a wrist or arm in a sling, etc.. So most like the ever popular unknown 'lower body' injury.

(She was sitting on the bench during warm-ups, and I was trying to watch for when she left, to see if I could see a boot, etc., but I looked away at the wrong moment, and missed her leaving. Maybe Tim saw something more from his angle?)

I did the 'double-header' and went to the men's game tonight; and before the start, I saw Badger play-by-play announcer Brian Posick (father of Badger player Maddie Posick). So I said 'if I ask you what is up with Campbell, will I get an answer?', and he said he didn't know - convincingly - and that he had seen her Thursday (I think) and she had looked OK. He gave the impression that it wasn't anything 'long term', but said he didn't know.

Breanna Blessi played well (though seemed a bit 'anxious' to play a couple dump-ins during the first period), pitching a shut-out on 13 saves.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

The 'news' from the Badger game today is that #1 goalie, Kristine Campbell, did not play and was not dressed. Unknown (to me. anyway) how long she might be out. She was at the game, on the bench with no obvious cast on a wrist or arm in a sling, etc.. So most like the ever popular unknown 'lower body' injury.

(She was sitting on the bench during warm-ups, and I was trying to watch for when she left, to see if I could see a boot, etc., but I looked away at the wrong moment, and missed her leaving. Maybe Tim saw something more from his angle?)

I did the 'double-header' and went to the men's game tonight, and before the start, I saw Badger play-by-play announcer Brian Posick (father of Badger player Maddie Posick). So I said 'if I ask you what is up with Campbell, will I get an answer?', and he said he didn't know - convincingly - and that he had seen her Thursday (I think) and she had looked OK. He gave the impression that it wasn't anything 'long term', but said he didn't know.

Todd D tweeted a lower body injury and I got the impression it wasn't serious. Cece has been MIA quite a bit lately and they only dressed 2 G today. I wonder what is up with Cece? Tomorrow I hope see if she's on the bench for warm-ups. Blesi played very well, she looked very composed out there.

Roque did not get a point today! Watts had 4 a and had some crazy good scoring chances. Tomorrow we cash in for ice cream, maybe we get a double

I did the double today too, it was a sad state of affairs over in the Kohl. I'd be insane if the women's team did not exist. And Buffalo Wild Wings screwed up my order. So mad, no time to wait for a redo. It's shocking how slow their service is when all they do is fry everything. Do they only have 2 fry baskets per store?